AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
Dec 3, 19, 2:44 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 802
From skimming down the thread in the credit card sub-board, it seems like someone figured out that a) opening up a new AA frequent flyer account generated a credit card offer with a good sign up bonus but that b) that sign-up bonus offer code was single use but not tied to a specific FF account. So they'd create multiple frequent flyer accounts under fake names where the credit card sign up bonus offer post card or e-mail was generated, and then use the code from the postcard to get a new card under their own name with their own SSN. And Citi was okay with these 'targeted' offers despite limiting general sign-up bonuses for that kind of product.
Until someone at Citi or AA seems to have decided it wasn't okay anymore.
Until someone at Citi or AA seems to have decided it wasn't okay anymore.
The emailers started a few months ago and were sent out by AA with very specific "this offer is only valid for sethMCOflyer and can't be transferred."
Dec 3, 19, 2:44 pm
#77
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,218
So much more interesting than the run of the mill i really didnt sell miles posts.
Now that I understand the conduct, I would love to know how deep the AA forensics were to bust this. I assume they had some data exchanges with the card issuer to link codes to specific mileage bonuses, or maybe they already get that code in the background where we dont see it, when the issuer reports charges sufficient to trigger the bonus. I wonder if they also log IP addresses, as that would probably tie single individuals using multiple accounts, including the fake accounts that generated promo codes. Im assuming the OP and others like him werent dumb enough to use the same email for the fake accounts and the real account, but who knows.
I dont think these folks have a leg to stand on, clearly abusive behavior for which AA would have a range of grounds to close accounts. The most obvious is that the fake accounts were set up for fraudulent purposes under fraudulent pretenses and since the proceeds were deposited into actual AA accounts, they seem within their rights to close those real accounts down. It seems irrelevant that the new cards are issued without complaint and the bonus miles paid out. AA seems well within its rights to investigate the transactions and in doing so determine the fraudulent opening of fake accounts was a violation of their terms for AA accounts.
Now that I understand the conduct, I would love to know how deep the AA forensics were to bust this. I assume they had some data exchanges with the card issuer to link codes to specific mileage bonuses, or maybe they already get that code in the background where we dont see it, when the issuer reports charges sufficient to trigger the bonus. I wonder if they also log IP addresses, as that would probably tie single individuals using multiple accounts, including the fake accounts that generated promo codes. Im assuming the OP and others like him werent dumb enough to use the same email for the fake accounts and the real account, but who knows.
I dont think these folks have a leg to stand on, clearly abusive behavior for which AA would have a range of grounds to close accounts. The most obvious is that the fake accounts were set up for fraudulent purposes under fraudulent pretenses and since the proceeds were deposited into actual AA accounts, they seem within their rights to close those real accounts down. It seems irrelevant that the new cards are issued without complaint and the bonus miles paid out. AA seems well within its rights to investigate the transactions and in doing so determine the fraudulent opening of fake accounts was a violation of their terms for AA accounts.
Dec 3, 19, 2:45 pm
#78
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Does anyone know what Citi pays AA for miles? Just guessing, maybe something less than one cent per mile. I can see scenarios where someone can land an outsized premium cabin international award flight which costs AA a whole lot more than what they got for the sale of those miles from Citi.
Dec 3, 19, 3:03 pm
#79
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
From skimming down the thread in the credit card sub-board, it seems like someone figured out that a) opening up a new AA frequent flyer account generated a credit card offer with a good sign up bonus but that b) that sign-up bonus offer code was single use but not tied to a specific FF account. So they'd create multiple frequent flyer accounts under fake names where the credit card sign up bonus offer post card or e-mail was generated, and then use the code from the postcard to get a new card under their own name with their own SSN. And Citi was okay with these 'targeted' offers despite limiting general sign-up bonuses for that kind of product.
Until someone at Citi or AA seems to have decided it wasn't okay anymore.
Until someone at Citi or AA seems to have decided it wasn't okay anymore.
Dec 3, 19, 3:20 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 530
Remember award availability is supposed to be distressed inventory that they predict will not sell. They make a ton of money off mileage sales (whether through CC or direct purchase) and it's unfathomable that this is hurting AA. It's like the only profitable part of their business.
Dec 3, 19, 3:23 pm
#81
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Posts: 27,730
Dec 3, 19, 3:33 pm
#82
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
Anytime awards in premium cabin international business class are always available albeit for twice the normal mileage of a Saver award. If youre getting large quantities of miles for free through CC Signup bonuses every month, then its not a big deal paying for Anytime awards, thus depleting inventory that may otherwise have sold or been made available for upgrades. If AA wasnt losing money on these schemes, I doubt theyd be closing these accounts.
Dec 3, 19, 3:44 pm
#83
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Anytime awards in premium cabin international business class are always available albeit for twice the normal mileage of a Saver award. If youre getting large quantities of miles for free through CC Signup bonuses every month, then its not a big deal paying for Anytime awards, thus depleting inventory that may otherwise have sold or been made available for upgrades. If AA wasnt losing money on these schemes, I doubt theyd be closing these accounts.
Dec 3, 19, 3:47 pm
#84
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 530
Last edited by aradisc; Dec 3, 19 at 3:58 pm
Dec 3, 19, 3:51 pm
#85
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Thats not what they are doing by and large- that one case was an extreme one with extenuating circumstances.
Dec 3, 19, 3:56 pm
#86
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 530
Anytime awards in premium cabin international business class are always available albeit for twice the normal mileage of a Saver award. If youre getting large quantities of miles for free through CC Signup bonuses every month, then its not a big deal paying for Anytime awards, thus depleting inventory that may otherwise have sold or been made available for upgrades. If AA wasnt losing money on these schemes, I doubt theyd be closing these accounts.
The award chart is priced by AA. They agree to sell miles to Citi at an agreed upon price (likely a little less than a cent) and sell miles to the public at varying prices approaching ~2 cents. At Anytime rate of 150K, that's $1200-$3500 in booked revenue for a one way in business to South America 2 or Asia 1. And most redemptions will be a lot cheaper than that, as low as marginal cost for saver award.
Dec 3, 19, 4:03 pm
#87
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,633
Anytime awards in premium cabin international business class are always available albeit for twice the normal mileage of a Saver award. If youre getting large quantities of miles for free through CC Signup bonuses every month, then its not a big deal paying for Anytime awards, thus depleting inventory that may otherwise have sold or been made available for upgrades. If AA wasnt losing money on these schemes, I doubt theyd be closing these accounts.
Quote:
But if I'd listened to the warnings I read here over the years, DW and I would have missed out on over a Million miles each. Not just the miles in our accounts now, but the miles we've already used for FC Anytime TATL flights every year for the past 9 years.
Dec 3, 19, 4:12 pm
#88
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold; Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 3,076
I was thinking the same thing. Given that your credit score usually drops by a few points every time there's a hard inquiry against your credit file and / or a new line of credit granted it's hard to see how someone could be constantly churning cards and not seeing an impact on their own credit score.
Dec 3, 19, 4:13 pm
#89
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,564
In the last 3-4 years (I don't recall exactly) Citi stopped allowing public offers to be used to get multiple cards, while still keeping back doors open. But one card every 33 days, in and of itself, is old news and completely legitimate.
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Last edited by SeeBuyFly; Dec 3, 19 at 4:57 pm
Dec 3, 19, 4:31 pm
#90
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 530
I was thinking the same thing. Given that your credit score usually drops by a few points every time there's a hard inquiry against your credit file and / or a new line of credit granted it's hard to see how someone could be constantly churning cards and not seeing an impact on their own credit score.
