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AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn

AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn

Old Jan 5, 20, 10:23 am
  #781  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler View Post
Let's be honest here. Someone, or some department, at Citi, almost certainly had "number of new accounts" as a KPI. They intentionally opened the floodgates to boost their numbers. I can't prove this but there's little doubt in my mind.
It is pretty far fetched to think a bank would intentionally allow new accounts to be opened without any type of oversight. It could never happen.

Wells Fargo Opened a Couple Million Fake Accounts

Wells Fargo has strict quotas regulating the number of daily "solutions" that its bankers must reach; these "solutions" include the opening of all new banking and credit card accounts. Managers constantly hound, berate, demean and threaten employees to meet these unreachable quotas.

(I think your theory has a lot of merit as to the why and how.)
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Old Jan 5, 20, 12:38 pm
  #782  
 
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Originally Posted by gumercindo View Post
The locked status seems to be pretty consisteny applied ....
I don't see any way you could know that unless you were directly involved within AA on this. Can you enlighten us on what the rules are, specifically?
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Old Jan 5, 20, 2:09 pm
  #783  
 
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Originally Posted by USFlyerUS View Post
This must be dependent on the jurisdiction. In the District of Columbia, for example, corporations must have legal counsel, even in small claims court. See https://www.dccourts.gov/services/ci...ng-10k-or-less.
A business that files a claim in the Small Claims Branch must have a lawyer.
This means that business plaintiffs must have counsel. It says nothing about business defendants, who presumably do not need counsel. And as OP noted, they were giving advice specifically for California SCC, where corporations may never be represented by counsel unless every employee is a lawyer (for example, a law office with no paralegals/admins). Please do not give legal advice if you don't know what you've talking about. There was anther poster who also got the question wrong.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 5:56 pm
  #784  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler View Post
I object to your use of the word "abuse". That has a negative connotation, and I don't view playing by the rules as "abuse"
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Watch the Pats-Titans game the other night? With Coach Vrabel burning a minute of clock time on carefully selected intentional penalties,
? (Ironic given how he played the same card earlier in the year against the Jets IIRC).

Legal? Sure. Abusing the system? Absolutely.

Same goes for anything else.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 7:46 pm
  #785  
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler View Post
I think SWUs can only be used on revenue flights. I'm no AA expert, but I did read the wiki on the relevant FT thread after Hyatt gave me the status.
Let's be careful about terminology. Tickets paid with money and tickets paid with miles (award tickets) are *both* considered to be revenue flights. What who'd not be a revenue flight would be, for example, an airline employee flying *free* for leisure travel on a standby basis (NRSA) or the similar situation for a family member or buddy pass rider.

In this case, I believe the AA rule is that SWUs cannot be used on award tickets (which are revenue).
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Old Jan 6, 20, 4:55 am
  #786  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Let's be careful about terminology. Tickets paid with money and tickets paid with miles (award tickets) are *both* considered to be revenue flights. What who'd not be a revenue flight would be, for example, an airline employee flying *free* for leisure travel on a standby basis (NRSA) or the similar situation for a family member or buddy pass rider.

In this case, I believe the AA rule is that SWUs cannot be used on award tickets (which are revenue).
I don't believe that is the generally accepted vernacular. While technically you may be correct, I believe this is more accurate when speaking about tickets:

Revenue ticket - paid with cash
Award ticket - paid with miles
Non-Revenue ticket - airline employee ticket

Here is an example of how the type of ticket is talked about on American.
Here is American talking about award tickets. (No mention of revenue tickets.)
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Old Jan 6, 20, 7:26 am
  #787  
 
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I think it depends on the context. You're never going to see something on the public-facing aa.com that refers to Award tickets as "revenue tickets," but if you hear gate agent chatter, award tickets would be included in the term "revenue ticket" to distinguish them from things like NRSA and other kinds of company travel.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 8:56 am
  #788  
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Originally Posted by Global321 View Post
I don't believe that is the generally accepted vernacular. While technically you may be correct, I believe this is more accurate when speaking about tickets:

Revenue ticket - paid with cash
Award ticket - paid with miles
Non-Revenue ticket - airline employee ticket
It is technically correct - an award ticket is a revenue ticket, and the value of the ticket is reported as "Passenger revenue" in AA's financial statements, and all associated metrics (e.g., PRASM). So it's definitely part of revenue. Here's one snippet of language from AAL's 10-K filing regarding the accounting for award miles earned from traveling (they do something similar for award miles sold to partners).:

For mileage credits earned through travel, we apply a relative selling price approach whereby the total amount collected from each passenger ticket sale is allocated between the air transportation and the mileage credits earned. The portion of each passenger ticket sale attributable to mileage credits earned is initially deferred and then recognized in passenger revenue when mileage credits are redeemed and transportation is provided.
I'd also note that while award tickets and cash paid tickets may be treated differently in some regards, there is a much bigger difference between either of these and real non-revenue tickets (employee travel).

Regardless of what some people may use, it's not good practice to use the term "revenue ticket" or similar when specifically referring to non-award/cash paid tickets.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 9:59 am
  #789  
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Originally Posted by Global321 View Post
Revenue ticket - paid with cash
Award ticket - paid with miles
Non-Revenue ticket - airline employee ticket
Correct from a trade POV

Incorrect from a financial statement or SEC POV

For mileage credits earned through travel, we apply a relative selling price approach whereby the total amount collected from each passenger ticket sale is allocated between the air transportation and the mileage credits earned. The portion of each passenger ticket sale attributable to mileage credits earned is initially deferred and then recognized in passenger revenue when mileage credits are redeemed and transportation is provided.

Correct from ASC606/GAAP perspective

Real economic/non-GAAP perspective may look like this:

Originally Posted by d00t View Post
A typical scenario may look like this: Let's pretend Amex paid $0.01/mile.

$0.006 - considered a marketing and branding component, and is banked instantly as revenue.

$0.004 is deferred revenue, essentially placed as incremental cost liability (calculated using a variety of factors based on historical performance, breakage and future forecasts), and amortized as passenger revenue by the airline being redeemed on and represents the cost of transport.

In the cases of many loyalty programs - the marketing component is greater than the estimated future cost of transportation.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 10:20 am
  #790  
 
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Plain English in common usage:

Long = Buy
Short = Sell
Derivatives/Options = Insurance
Risk management = Buy insurance (technically an asset, but whatever...)
Cash management = interest
Cartridge/Rounds = Bullets
Semi-automatic = Machine guns & assault military style rifles
Past performance not a guarantee of future results = Dumb*ss, I ain't Nostradamus here, and if things go wrong, you can lose everything.

These days, I'm all for dumbing it down, Guys.

PS - Oh, my favorite. Hedge Fund = I'm an investor.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 10:29 am
  #791  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
Plain English in common usage:


Semi-automatic = Machine guns & assault military style rifles
.
A machine gun is fully automatic.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 10:53 am
  #792  
 
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
It is technically correct - an award ticket is a revenue ticket, a...

Regardless of what some people may use, it's not good practice to use the term "revenue ticket" or similar when specifically referring to non-award/cash paid tickets.
Originally Posted by percysmith View Post
Correct from a trade POV

Incorrect from a financial statement or SEC POV
No argument with any of these statements.

And as you both seem to imply, when we are talking about them on FT, the simplest/clearest terms are...

Revenue ticket - paid with cash
Award ticket - paid with miles
Non-Revenue ticket - airline employee ticket


Anything else becomes unnecessarily wordy.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 10:58 am
  #793  
 
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
Regardless of what some people may use, it's not good practice to use the term "revenue ticket" or similar when specifically referring to non-award/cash paid tickets.
I disagree 100%. At least over on the UA forum, everyone knows that revenue means paid with cash and award means paid with miles. It is crystal clear. Obviously, award tickets are still positive space and treated as "revenue" for the purpose of upgrades, standby, VDB/IDB comp, IRROPs, etc. TBH, I think calling both ticket types revenue actually increases confusion. Employee/buddy tickets are of course, NRSA but that is far afield from this discussion (hopefully no employees got caught up in this).

Originally Posted by Global321 View Post
It is pretty far fetched to think a bank would intentionally allow new accounts to be opened without any type of oversight. It could never happen.

Wells Fargo Opened a Couple Million Fake Accounts

Wells Fargo has strict quotas regulating the number of daily "solutions" that its bankers must reach; these "solutions" include the opening of all new banking and credit card accounts. Managers constantly hound, berate, demean and threaten employees to meet these unreachable quotas.

(I think your theory has a lot of merit as to the why and how.)
Speaking of our friends over at the Big F, they may soon be facing criminal charges!!!! Of course, that fraud was perpetuated by employees whereas this *alleged* LOL fraud was done by customers.
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Old Jan 6, 20, 1:04 pm
  #794  
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Originally Posted by sexykitten7 View Post
This means that business plaintiffs must have counsel. It says nothing about business defendants, who presumably do not need counsel. And as OP noted, they were giving advice specifically for California SCC, where corporations may never be represented by counsel unless every employee is a lawyer (for example, a law office with no paralegals/admins). Please do not give legal advice if you don't know what you've talking about. There was anther poster who also got the question wrong.
Hypothetically speaking...

If the firm of Duey, Cheatem and Howe was sued in small claims class and the only non-lawyer in the company is a janitor, the janitor would represent them? That's pretty wild
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Old Jan 6, 20, 1:25 pm
  #795  
 
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I found out my account was "locked" when I booked a flight for a friend. Friend's ticket was made and miles originally deleted from account. 24 hours prior to check in friend not able to check in. I called AA late in night and customer service indicated that my account was 'locked' and that I should call AA Mileage the next day. I figured I would just put her on another airline flight and have ignored it to date. No email received yet. Just one AA account.
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