JY1024

Moderator note:

After (another) thread clean-up, this thread is now re-opened.

Borrowing the words of a fellow mod, who is handling this parallel thread in a different forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mia

This is an emotional topic, but there is no Flyertalk rule or norm that prohibits expressing support for AA's actions, provided this is done in a courteous and constructive fashion.

If someone challenges your idea, defend the idea, but do not attack the other poster. Make your point once, and only once.

Write about AA and Citi products, policies and practices. Do not write about each other. Personal attacks will be deleted, even if they also contain substantive content.

Please submit moderation suggestions privately, by clicking the Red Alert icon in the lower left corner of a post.

Thanks for your cooperation. (Your volunteer mods are trying to do their best to enjoy the holiday season as well and would rather not be issuing warnings and suspensions. )

/JY1024, AA forum co-mod

walterj

In contrast to the banks issuing credit cards, AA has free reign to do whatever it wants. Their frequent flier program is not under regulatory scrutiny.

But just because AA can do whatever it wants, doesn't make it smart.
The recent shutdown by AA of people getting multiple credit card bonuses by locking accounts, cancelling flights, confiscating miles, and closing accounts is too much heavy-handed in contrast how the banks handle the same situation.

Since the business of AA is becoming more and more dependent on the sale of frequent flier miles, they shouldn't kill the golden goose. The miles and points community has an influence beyond its numbers. Whose account will be closed next? Is it safe to book a flight with AA? Can anyone who ever had a AA credit card consider themselves safe?


I would recommend that AA take a softer approach: Close the loophole. but let customers keep their miles.
If you must close accounts, give them compensation for their miles, .02 cents a mile or the 1099 value.

audifan27

Not yet!

Dave Noble

taking action against those that don't feel that the rules apply to them , seems like nothing that would kill any goose

Maybe the influence will be that people will not abuse bonus miles earning on AA

I doubt that anyone who has been acting within rules is likely to be concerned

walterj

No AA rules were broken. Probably no citi rules were broken. I would say you don't know the details. Do you have a copy of the contract agreement between citi and the credit card holder?

The perception that AA is acting unfairly, certainly heavy handed, will influence anyone considering buying AA miles, using their AA portal, applying for an AA credit card. If you book with AA miles, can you trust that AA won't cancel your flight because they suspect you might be one the of "abusers"?

It takes years to build a reputation, only one event to lose it.

Often1

It is close to a moral certainty that AA and some number of outside vendors have examined all of this from a legal, regulatory, and brand damage perspective and have either come to the opposite conclusion or the conclusion that the people offended by this action are people AA does not mind jumping ship.

Dave Noble

Really? people who broke no rules of card company ( in regards to bonuses etc )are being impacted ? the reports seem to be whines that they didn't expect to be punished by having their accounts frozen/closed and thought that they were safe once the bonuses were credited

I don't expect that genuine customers will be at all worried

tom911

Of all the things under discussion at AA corporate offices, hard to imagine anyone has placed this on the table. You want folks that AA is accusing of abusing the system (I remember the word "exploitative" in a letter an FTer posted) reimbursed by AA for the value of their miles?

walterj

This is an almost hilarious conjecture. I am sure that teams of high-priced lawyers from the top firms in New York charging $300-500 an hour were called in on private jets and rushed to Dallas to talk about the dozen - perhaps a couple hundred people who collected a few too many bonuses.

Upper management is probably only finding out when the news hit hit Bloomberg or maybe not. My conjecture, they are surprised that it is getting this much attention. Moral certainty.

walterj

Yes, we earned the miles. Citi approved the credit card application and offered the bonus.

Dave Noble

That you earned the miles seems to be something that you may believe but Citi, AA and ( it seems) many others don't believe

walterj

What rules were broken? Who has read the contract between citi and the cardholder?

OssianBlue

No, actually. With the exception of a small number of people who used e-mail offers with non-transferable language most AA churn people broke no Citi rules.

richarddd

If AA wants to stop this behavior in the future, it should make it clear that mailer churning is unacceptable. It could add an explicit item to its T&Cs or make sure Citi tightens its approval standards or whatever.

It is, however, clear that AA is winning the PR war, for example, see the Bloomberg article. It is highly unlikely that this purge wasn't signed off by senior management, legal, etc.

They are also highly unlikely to suffer any legal consequences given their T&Cs, current law and current US courts. They are also highly unlikely to sue anyone, given their and Citi's knowledge of what was happening, lack of action to stop it, difficulty in proving damages, etc.

It appears that AA's hook is that AAdvantage accounts were created in violation of its rules, used to create mailers and those mailers were used by those account creators or others to whom they were not addressed, plus household members of the churners.

Any ethical issues (such as using multiple mailers or shutting down accounts without prior notice or process) can be endlessly debated, but are essentially irrelevant at this point.

tom911

Might be a good time to review the letter AA sent out that's on the Doctor of Credit blog. It makes reference to things like fraud, misrepresentation and abuse, as well as tickets being purchased using an "exploitative practice". Are you a recipient of that type of letter?
https://www.doctorofcredit.com/ameri...rewards-abuse/