orbitmic

Actually, "if not" or even if it is a "grey area", then I would argue that all should be left alone with no punitive measure taken (for what it's work, I'll be extremely surprised if that is the case. I think that what is described in most cases was abusive). It is not up to airlines to take measures if passengers did nothing wrong and I would expect AA to only engage in repressive decisions if there is evidence of abuse, not if there isn't or if they are "not so sure". Again, to me, this is a pretty black or white situation.

Visconti

From AA's perspective, it's not their business until the miles are in the accounts of their members. Until then, its Citi's business and area of expertise, and I suspect AA would defer to them on the dispersing process.

richarddd

Then they should not later complain about the dispersing process. IOW, if they think it's acceptable, don't cancel accounts. If they don't think it's acceptable, give advance warning or otherwise make sure it doesn't happen.

Opening multiple fake AAdvantage accounts, or buying codes, is another matter.

Visconti

So far, my account and those that I know are fine. From that, I suspect there's a limit to how wide of a net AA has cast, since, I, a perk abuser, has been thus far spared. While I have no insights on AA's strategy, mine would be simply to act in the best interest of my shareholders to the fullest extent allowable by law. If my lawyers tell me I can do basically whatever I want, then I'll make whatever decision that maximizes shareholder value absent of any other concerns. Nothing more, and nothing less.

I don't even have any qualms with this, so long as when AA responds, just don't cry/whine about it. That's all.

Often1

It sounds as though at least AA, if not Citi, determined that what is happenining is an abusive practice and is now taking measures to do something about it. Suggesting that somehow a business forfeits the right to maintain profitability because it has not done so as to one practice or another is absurd.

For those who believe that a private for-profit business will not look at a customer's value in determining what to do, the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale too. While "elite" status is one way to look at the matter, overall profitability is another and it is something that AA, like all customer-facing businesses does. Some people are offered status challenges and others are not. Why? Some people who are caught up here may have their accounts closed and others may be offered a settlement of some sort. Why?

richarddd

One problem with this thread is that we switch between what AA can do legally, what is in its best business interests and what is ethical behavior by either AA or AAdvantage members. Similarly for Citi. It often seems that someone will say something in one category and get a reply in another.

Among AA's current business problem is that management does not seem very good at delivering value to its shareholders or operating an airline.

richarddd

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that AA should not do something. The question is what they should do and, in particular, whether they should punish customers for doing things they implicitly or explicitly condoned for years when the customer had no idea the practice violated any T&Cs. Stopping an unprofitable practice is perfectly reasonable. AA appears to be going beyond that (hard to tell exactly given limited data).

Visconti

Sure I'm in the minority on this issue here, but we should leave ethics/morality out of it--decisions should always be made absent of emotion. We have a free market adversarial system that works well because each person/group/entity/company may act freely to advocate his/their/its respective interest(s). Unlike others, I think conflict is conducive to finding the best solutions, because afterwards the compromise is often the fairest solution for all involved. The process isn't personal and it should never be, and afterwards we call shake hands as gentleman/gentlewomen and move onto the next challenge/obstacle.

And regarding AAL, in my view, I don't think mgt has been effective relative to their peers. Having said that, what's transpired to get AA to this point is not important, only how to turn around their core business.

joe_miami

Would you mind explaining why you’d need several of the same AA card rather than one each of three different AA cards? Hard to believe anyone would need three, let alone six or 12, of the same AA card when authorized user cards exist. This is especially true when you consider the $95 annual fee.

I agree, but this is an argument for using AA status as a consideration when deciding to terminate someone or not. From a business standpoint, AA wouldn’t and probably shouldn’t treat a $0 customer and a $100,000 customer the same.

Visconti

Agreed.

And, irrespective of my personal views on the notion of fair play, the aggrieved customer, whether it be the $0 or $100K, is free to complain, write letters to AA voicing objections, petition their Cong reps, fire AA, try to sue or whatever and however they'd like to respond.

In my view, it all works out in the end.

Often1

Or, more to the point, multiple bonuses.

Global321

Spot on. This is a good example of maybe allowed to go through, but clearly abusive. I will ask your same question to OP... Why would anyone need 3 or more of the SAME card?
I cannot think of any logical reason, except abuse.

Again, spot on.

If you are a $100k customer and opened 3 of the SAME card, I can see AA letting it go. Your ROI as a customer is much greater than the "abuse".
If you are a once a year customer and opened 3 of the SAME card, I can see AA closing your account. Your ROI as a customer is much less than the "abuse".


A business decision. No more. No less.

Often1

No different than an AA agent waiving a $200 change fee for an HVC but not for a peasant. That is $200 cold hard cash in the HVC's pocket which under an egalitarian theory ought not to be there because the fee is specified in the fare rules and those apply to all who purchased a ticket under those rules.

jashsu

I wonder how many $100k customers engage in Citi/AA mailer hijinx.

aradisc

On a side note, I'm glad this thread has settled down a bit and people are now having mostly respectful discussions about the business, ethics, and implications of this issue.