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AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn

AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn

Old Dec 19, 19, 10:43 am
  #331  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Is there a chance that you kept the two offers that you receiver by mail and/or that you printed a hard copy of the public offer you used? It would help, assuming that AA does contact you, to be able to show the two mailers you received, that were addressed to you and presumably connected to your one and only AA FF account at the address associated with that account.
From everything we've seen so far, AA won't contact them, unfortunately, other than to transmit the termination email and any flight cancellation email.

Originally Posted by joe_miami View Post
Nonsense. The clear implication was that AA could be locking or closing the accounts of frequent AA flyers who had nothing to do with churning AA credit cards, but there are zero false positives thus far.
Churning isn't the alleged abuse, though. Churning is simply repeatedly applying for lots of rewards credit cards to earn signup bonuses (SUBs). It doesn't require or imply violating anyone's terms and conditions or doing anything unethical. It's been part and parcel of FT for as long as I've been here and some of the big points and miles blogs wouldn't be what they are today without the practice having added to their readership.

The supposition is that AA is alleging abuse based on using nominally non-transferable offer codes not intended for the credit card applicant and creating fake AAdvantage accounts to generate said offer codes. In that context there are a few reports, including one upthread, of folks being locked or shutdown despite having acquired new credit card accounts through public offers and properly targeted offers intended for themselves. So those are false positives, however limited.

If instead AA is really locking or shutting down those with 3+ SUBs in a year, without regard to the source of those applications (remember one can easily acquire at least that many through normal public offers and within the banks' normal application velocity limits), then that's a whole 'nother ballgame. You're right in that we haven't seen any reports of locks/shutdowns from those who never received any SUBs whatsoever.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 10:46 am
  #332  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
It's better than nothing. It's those self-reported data-points and some kinds of confirmation of account shut-downs of sorts that have made it clear that AA accounts have been shut down for card-churning-related reasons. Knowing that is better than not knowing.

Even as someone who is at no risk of having my AA account closed due to credit card churning, it's still useful info of sorts and better than not knowing this has happened too.
Datapoints possibly untruthful or incomplete from an untrustworthy source is not better than nothing.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 10:52 am
  #333  
 
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
If instead AA is really locking or shutting down those with 3+ SUBs in a year, without regard to the source of those applications (remember one can easily acquire at least that many through normal public offers and within the banks' normal application velocity limits), then that's a whole 'nother ballgame.
Assuming 3+ SUBs absent of any other T&C violations? How many data points and how does one judge the veracity of the reports?
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Old Dec 19, 19, 10:53 am
  #334  
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
From everything we've seen so far, AA won't contact them, unfortunately, other than to transmit the termination email and any flight cancellation email.



Churning isn't the alleged abuse, though. Churning is simply repeatedly applying for lots of rewards credit cards to earn signup bonuses (SUBs). It doesn't require or imply violating anyone's terms and conditions or doing anything unethical. It's been part and parcel of FT for as long as I've been here and some of the big points and miles blogs wouldn't be what they are today without the practice having added to their readership.

The supposition is that AA is alleging abuse based on using nominally non-transferable offer codes not intended for the credit card applicant and creating fake AAdvantage accounts to generate said offer codes. In that context there are a few reports, including one upthread, of folks being locked or shutdown despite having acquired new credit card accounts through public offers and properly targeted offers intended for themselves. So those are false positives, however limited.

If instead AA is really locking or shutting down those with 3+ SUBs in a year, without regard to the source of those applications (remember one can easily acquire at least that many through normal public offers and within the banks' normal application velocity limits), then that's a whole 'nother ballgame. You're right in that we haven't seen any reports of locks/shutdowns from those who never received any SUBs whatsoever.
I was using the term churning as a catch-all for the same general behavior. The fact people didnt close Card 1 before getting Card 2 doesnt really change much.

As for your point about multiple SUBs, there arent many, if any, examples of people getting shut down without having duplicates of the same card. Ive seen no one claim to have been shut down after one Citi Platinum, one Citi biz card, and one Barclays card.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 10:54 am
  #335  
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Originally Posted by george 3 View Post
Datapoints possibly untruthful or incomplete from an untrustworthy source is not better than nothing.
There have been self-reported data-points and some kinds of confirmation of account shut-downs of sorts that have made it clear that AA accounts have been shut down for card-churning-related reasons. How can such data-points not be "better than nothing" for consumers who may be (or have been) in the market for AA's bank cards?
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:00 am
  #336  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
Assuming 3+ SUBs absent of any other T&C violations? How many data points and how does one judge the veracity of the reports?
I've had 4 SUBs in 2019 (2 Citi, 2 Barclay; 1 biz & 1 personal for each). No funny stuff of any kind. If these are the criteria, I should be a prime candidate. Will report back if I get rekt.

Also received the Exec Plat match via Hyatt, so this would be pretty brutal.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:04 am
  #337  
 
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Originally Posted by LowValueCustomer View Post
Also received the Exec Plat match via Hyatt, so this would be pretty brutal.
If AA had an issue, you wouldn't have been on that list. Your account is fine now and has been, right?
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:07 am
  #338  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
If AA had an issue, you wouldn't have been on that list. Your account is fine now and has been, right?
Yes, account is fine as of now. I'm probably just paranoid, but given the state of AA IT, I would not be terribly shocked to find that the biz dev division and the corporate security division do not talk to each other...
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:09 am
  #339  
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
If AA had an issue, you wouldn't have been on that list. Your account is fine now and has been, right?
No, people have gotten the WoH ExPlat gift and then been shut down. This person seems like he should be okay, but getting ExPlat from WoH doesnt mean people are in the clear.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:10 am
  #340  
 
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Originally Posted by LowValueCustomer View Post
Yes, account is fine as of now. I'm probably just paranoid, but given the state of AA IT, I would not be terribly shocked to find that the biz dev division and the corporate security division do not talk to each other...
2 Citi, 2 Barclay; 1 biz & 1 personal for each - I'd bet pretty penny that you're fine.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:11 am
  #341  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
If AA had an issue, you wouldn't have been on that list. Your account is fine now and has been, right?
That the poster you're replying to apparently hasn't been hit indicates that the criteria is more complex (e.g. there's a threshold for SUB vs. flying miles involved) or that AA has a list and is checking it twice.

Either would suggest that AA is trying to avoid false alarms.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:11 am
  #342  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
2 Citi, 2 Barclay; 1 biz & 1 personal for each - I'd bet pretty penny that you're fine.
Thanks, here's to hoping.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:17 am
  #343  
 
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Originally Posted by joe_miami View Post
No, people have gotten the WoH ExPlat gift and then been shut down. This person seems like he should be okay, but getting ExPlat from WoH doesnt mean people are in the clear.
Wow, if anyone is deserving of some sympathy, it'd have to be them!

In my view, LVC did it right. One bus & personal with each Bank, perfectly normal and rational. I'd be stunned if he got zapped.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:17 am
  #344  
 
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Originally Posted by hhdl View Post
That the poster you're replying to apparently hasn't been hit indicates that the criteria is more complex (e.g. there's a threshold for SUB vs. flying miles involved) or that AA has a list and is checking it twice.

Either would suggest that AA is trying to avoid false alarms.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 11:31 am
  #345  
 
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I posted this in the Citi forum thread, but I received three Citi sign up bonuses this year from different products. No duplicate applications, no mailers not sent to my name, everything on board, etc. My current mileage stash is a result of SUB, card spending, miles earned from flights and purchased miles

I just booked a mileage trip for next year, everything ticketed.

Last edited by Adelphos; Dec 19, 19 at 3:14 pm
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