Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 31806257)
You have a lot of catching up to do.
|
Originally Posted by sethMCOflyer
(Post 31806232)
Some people's pets simply signed up for their own AA account after hearing about how much their owner was flying AA, only to realize they couldn't fly so they abandoned the account. Then some of their owners happened to use the Citi offer codes that their pets had passed on. ... It doesn't seem like Fido signing up for an account and never using it constitutes fraud or misrepresentation.
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806245)
when i was (much) younger i thought people with in-cabin pets had to purchase a seat for them. if they paid for the pet’s seat, it seems reasonable to assume the pet could earn miles on the seat.
Only individuals are eligible for AAdvantage® program membership. Non-individuals including corporations, other entities, animals or blocked-seat baggage are not eligible to become AAdvantage® members or to accrue AAdvantage® miles. |
Originally Posted by Steve M
(Post 31806291)
Nice try guys, but what about this in the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions:
|
Originally Posted by sethMCOflyer
(Post 31806311)
Do you really think that's going to stop a dog? They can't even read!
|
Originally Posted by Steve M
(Post 31806291)
Nice try guys, but what about this in the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions:
It's funny that we are aware of at least 1-2 people having had their account shut down and miles confiscated while the very loophole of which we speak remains open. If they were truly interested in stopping this, they would have stopped the mailers/approvals/bonuses long ago. IANAL but I believe there is a legal term for knowing about an issue such as this and failing to take action to prevent it, and it is a powerful legal defense (laches?). Citi/AA could be accused of wanting to have their cake (increasing sign up numbers and average credit score for metrics purposes) and eat it too (shutting down members who are gaming the system too hard). There are a lot of holier-than-thou industry veterans in this forum, who are very protective of their elite status and butt-in-seat miles and are bitter toward those gaming the system, so nobody's going to get neutral opinions here. It has always surprised me that FlyerTalk has such a vibrant credit card churning community in the Points/Miles/Card Cards forums, because there is a lot of palpable bitterness toward those who have managed to garner thousands, if not millions, more miles than the actual butt-in-seat flyers. But I don't blame the butt-in-seat flyers for being bitter; it's become harder and harder to use miles because they have been given out like candy, so there is more competition for award space. |
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806357)
..If they were truly interested in stopping this, they would have stopped the mailers/approvals/bonuses long ago. IANAL but I believe there is a legal term for knowing about an issue such as this and failing to take action to prevent it, and it is a powerful legal defense (laches?).
|
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 31806378)
NO.
It is impossible for them to know whether the miles were earned from mailers generated by accounts created for real people or fake people, or coworkers or neighbors. All that matters is that Citi allowed you to change the name/AAdvantage number on the application and approved the applicants for multiple cards/bonuses. To me, this is the end of the discussion. Citi/AA can fix their issue going forward, they can lock accounts temporarily for a reasonable amount of time to investigate, but they are not going to be able to tell someone with a straight face that they are guilty of fraud or abuse because they used their brother's/friend's/coworkers' mailers, when the mailers were effectively transferrable. This is going to be my last post on the subject because someone convinced me in PM that there is nothing to be gained from this discussion given the readership here. |
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806465)
Sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that the issue is far too muddled for AA to take any action against those who have earned miles from mailers. That's a convenient conclusion for those who are sitting on millions of miles, but it's the truth.
It is impossible for them to know whether the miles were earned from mailers generated by accounts created for real people or fake people, or coworkers or neighbors. All that matters is that Citi allowed you to change the name/AAdvantage number on the application and approved the applicants for multiple cards/bonuses. To me, this is the end of the discussion. Citi/AA can fix their issue going forward, they can lock accounts temporarily for a reasonable time period to investigate, but they are not going to be able to tell someone with a straight face that they are guilty of fraud or abuse because they used their brother's/friend's/coworkers' mailers, when the mailers were effectively transferrable. This is going to be my last post on the subject because someone convinced me in PM that there is nothing to be gained from this discussion given the readership here.
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806465)
..This is going to be my last post on the subject because someone convinced me in PM that there is nothing to be gained from this discussion given the readership here.
|
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806465)
Sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that the issue is far too muddled for AA to take any action against those who have earned miles from mailers. That's a convenient conclusion for those who are sitting on millions of miles, but it's the truth.
It is impossible for them to know whether the miles were earned from mailers generated by accounts created for real people or fake people, or coworkers or neighbors. All that matters is that Citi allowed you to change the name/AAdvantage number on the application and approved the applicants for multiple cards/bonuses. To me, this is the end of the discussion. Citi/AA can fix their issue going forward, they can lock accounts temporarily for a reasonable time period to investigate, but they are not going to be able to tell someone with a straight face that they are guilty of fraud or abuse because they used their brother's/friend's/coworkers' mailers, when the mailers were effectively transferrable. This is going to be my last post on the subject because someone convinced me in PM that there is nothing to be gained from this discussion given the readership here. 2. American Airlines will take whatever action they see fit according to their interpretation of the rules. The rules explicitly allow them, and them alone, to interpret the rules. 3. It may be muddled to you, but they and their partners at Citi have whatever information they need to understand who was doing what. 4. It doesn't matter if the additional accounts were created for a real person or an animal or a breakfast sandwich. They were created. A mailer was generated. Someone used that mailer to open a credit card. Someone, many in fact, seem to have done that multiple times with many mailers form many accounts created for the purpose of generating those mailers. Those credit card applications can be linked to other credit card applications and accounts at Citi. And through all of that American—which, and this cannot be emphasized enough, does not care what you have concluded about the muddiness or clarity of the issue at hand—can figure out who was doing what. 5. They will absolutely tell anyone they want to—with the absolute straightest of faces—that they are guilty of abuse or misrepresentation. Because the transferability of the mailers really doesn't matter when the generation of the mailer (which, again, with Citi they can figure out may have been triggered by an account with no previous activity) was the result of misrepresentation. 6.They're not stupid. |
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806465)
It is impossible for them to know whether the miles were earned from mailers generated by accounts created for real people or fake people, or coworkers or neighbors.
|
Posting one last thing: AA would be the criminal here if it confiscated millions of customers' miles after having profited by selling them to Citi.
|
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806532)
Posting one last thing: AA would be the criminal here if it confiscated millions of customers' miles after having profited by selling them to Citi.
|
Originally Posted by IkeEsq
(Post 31805208)
It seems that a lot of people are not familiar with churning Citi cards for AA miles and are thinking this is a recent development. What you see today in the Targeted Mailer thread has been going on in some form or another since I got here over 8 years ago. I would need to do a bit of research to get dates right exactly but here is a brief history:
|
Originally Posted by wiivile
(Post 31806465)
This is going to be my last post on the subject because someone convinced me in PM that there is nothing to be gained from this discussion given the readership here. |
Is fraud-pologist a thing here?
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 3:41 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.