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Aircraft swap and agent refuse to cancel and refund

Aircraft swap and agent refuse to cancel and refund

Old Nov 21, 2019, 8:06 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by noobynoob
Some people seem think flights to and from Canada are domestic flights?? Do AA use a different definition of "international"? Another poster noted where the domestic leg of an itinerary to an international destination had an aircraft equipment substitution, he was able to request a full refund.

Seeing the rules are referred to as the "International General Rules", presumably there is a different set of rules that apply to domestic flights (which I do not have access to, so I cannot comment on whether those rules do or ever did allow a refund in this kind of situations). But I agree, if AA can swap an aircraft to a 737-MAX with no option for those who do not want to fly the MAX, perhaps it is best avoided until it is proven safe.
Not sure what it says in the contract, but I know from looking at the "Upgrade with miles..." site it shows, " **North America is defined as the U.S. (including Hawaii and Alaska), Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, the Bahamas and the Caribbean "

Those of us who are or have been Gold & Platinum and use 500-mile stickers know that pretty much anything in North America (except Mexico City?) is considered domestic in AA's eyes.

Last edited by bscooter26; Nov 21, 2019 at 8:12 am
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 8:56 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bscooter26
Not sure what it says in the contract, but I know from looking at the "Upgrade with miles..." site it shows, " **North America is defined as the U.S. (including Hawaii and Alaska), Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, the Bahamas and the Caribbean "

Those of us who are or have been Gold & Platinum and use 500-mile stickers know that pretty much anything in North America (except Mexico City?) is considered domestic in AA's eyes.
I would say most people (if not all) agree that North America includes Canada and Mexico. But North America and international are not mutually exclusive (nor are North America and domestic); The Contract makes references to Canada (and other non-US countries), and does modify some of the provisions for certain countries, but this provision wasn't one of them that was modified for certain countries.
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 9:12 am
  #33  
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The term "international" varies based on AA's best interests. The same North American/Caribbean flights are not international for the purposes of denying lounge access, but they are suddenly international when you miss them so you can pay a hefty international change fee.
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 9:14 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by noobynoob
I would say most people (if not all) agree that North America includes Canada and Mexico. But North America and international are not mutually exclusive (nor are North America and domestic); The Contract makes references to Canada (and other non-US countries), and does modify some of the provisions for certain countries, but this provision wasn't one of them that was modified for certain countries.
Well it seems easy to me - if it requires a passport it's international
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 9:15 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by estnet
Well it seems easy to me - if it requires a passport it's international
Like nk15 alluded to- unfortunately AA doesn't think so when it comes to Flagship lounge access (for Plat, PP, & EP)
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 2:38 pm
  #36  
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That's interesting. I think the website does restrict the flagship lounge access to travelers on a "qualifying" international or transcon:

***Qualifying international flights are those between the U.S. and Europe, Asia, Central and South America, Australia, New Zealand and Mexico City (MEX) only. Qualifying transcontinental flights are defined as non-stop between New York Kennedy (JFK) and Los Angeles (LAX) or San Francisco (SFO). All other international destinations are excluded from this benefit. Departing flight must be the same-day (or before 6 a.m. the following day).

1Qualifying international flights are those between the U.S. and Europe, Asia, Central and South America, Australia, New Zealand and Mexico City (MEX) only. All other international destinations are excluded from this benefit.

Canada does not qualify
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Old Nov 21, 2019, 3:02 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by noobynoob
So Customer Relations finally confirmed I can request a full refund.
This was always something that would have had to go through Customer Relations, which you can only contact via web form. Reservations at best could annotate the record that you are eligible (or that they think you’re NOT eligible ) for a refund, but they wouldn’t be able to process it. If you tried to apply online via prefunds.aa.com, it probably would have rejected it unless you already cancelled the reservation (which I wouldn’t have recommended).

Glad you got it sorted out finally.
Took me 3 back and forths with CR to get them to refund a change fee that was erroneously applied (even with a reservations supervisor noting the record). It’s become such a hassle to deal with this airline, I’ve only bought two one-way tickets with them this past year.
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Old Nov 22, 2019, 2:14 am
  #38  
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Don't airlines have to file their CofCs with DOT? If so, wouldn't incremental changes be found somewhere on DOT's site?
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Old Nov 22, 2019, 2:42 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by noobynoob
However, two people on the phone said they don't see this in their conditions of carriage and referred to this (https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...f-carriage.jsp, which seems to have been updated this week), and suggested I contact Customer Relations. Customer Relations suggested I contact the call centre.......
This is the version before 15 Nov https://web.archive.org/web/20191027...f-carriage.jsp but isn't identical to AA1 (AA1 is more detailed) and gives AA more wiggle room
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Old Nov 22, 2019, 6:37 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by bscooter26
Like nk15 alluded to- unfortunately AA doesn't think so when it comes to Flagship lounge access (for Plat, PP, & EP)
Yes, I"ve been puzzled about that but it seems to me that definition of who is allowed in a lounge is a bit different than regulations about tickets to international destinations (which I think should be governed by the passport rule) - but what do I know????
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Old Nov 22, 2019, 8:12 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by bscooter26
Like nk15 alluded to- unfortunately AA doesn't think so when it comes to Flagship lounge access (for Plat, PP, & EP)
That has nothing to do with the definition of what AA considers international for the purpose of contract terms for tickets
That is something separate involving whether or not a trip is eligible for lounge access. AA does not say all international trips are eligible, it specifically says "qualifying international", so clearly AA does not consider Caribbean, Canada, and Mexico (except for Mexico City) to be domestic
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Old Nov 22, 2019, 8:32 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by mvoight
That has nothing to do with the definition of what AA considers international for the purpose of contract terms for tickets
That is something separate involving whether or not a trip is eligible for lounge access. AA does not say all international trips are eligible, it specifically says "qualifying international", so clearly AA does not consider Caribbean, Canada, and Mexico (except for Mexico City) to be domestic
They at least consider those to be at the same level(?) as domestic trips, for the purposes of lounge access. Guessing that has to do with the money spent on those flights.

You're right, it doesn't have anything to do with what the contract terms say is international, just trying to offer some other perspective
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Old Nov 27, 2019, 6:00 am
  #43  
 
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Trying to get a refund for aircraft swap- pls help

Hi all. We were supposed to fly Saturday but no longer need the trip. We had multiple changes to our tickets including time and aircraft swap. The time wasn’t significant to warrant the refund but they substituted a new plane so I was hoping that would qualify. I tried twittering but they told me no because it was “similar type of aircraft”. Am I wrong here? I don’t recall seeing that as a loophole. If it matters it was an international to domestic flight. Thanks for your insights.
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Old Nov 27, 2019, 6:12 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by blueskadoo
Hi all. We were supposed to fly Saturday but no longer need the trip. We had multiple changes to our tickets including time and aircraft swap. The time wasn’t significant to warrant the refund but they substituted a new plane so I was hoping that would qualify. I tried twittering but they told me no because it was “similar type of aircraft”. Am I wrong here? I don’t recall seeing that as a loophole. If it matters it was an international to domestic flight. Thanks for your insights.
We need more details. In general AA does not guarantee a/c type or even seats. Now if for example there was a downgrade from a 777 to a 757 and you lost your J seat AA might be amendable. Also when were the schedule changes. Just recent or weeks/months ago?

Likely at this point you are out of luck.
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Old Nov 27, 2019, 6:24 am
  #45  
 
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Well...I’m not quite that lucky to be flying J! We went from a 737 to a 767 on the first leg, and from an RJ145 to an RJ175 on the second one. The RJ leg went from being operated by AA to being operated by Republic Air (I think- the original flight says nothing about operator so I assume it’s them). The change was made in August, but of course then we still thought we were taking the trip.
I know that it’s a reach but I have to try. These one way tickets for us were 1000 bucks, so that’d be nice to get back.
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