MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

Adding on I believe Parker thinks in terms that only those paxs that are PLT and above or pay for a premium seat are worth worrying about. Everyone can be shoved into a seat made for an 8 year old and just lump it. The problem is that when a flight arrives late the front of the plane also arrives late, not just the back of the plane. And then the problems ensue. Missed connections, missed appointments, forced overnights (often at one's own expense), angry paxs, burned out front line staff, etc.

Just about all of the airlines are adopting the dual strategy of partial ULCC. Even B6 which fought the trend for so long is going that way. They all are jamming in more seats, finding new or increased fees and introducing bare bone nonfundable, non changable fares. This just isn't AA trying to be a premium airline to some and an ULCC to others.

When the next recession finally does come I think the ULCC model will be in for a huge surprise. People (particularly CEOs) have forgotten what airlines were doing to coax people onto planes. Remember the nonstop DEQM promotions in 2009 and 2010. All of those extra seats might find themselves devoid of a butt. Some people will continue to fly as part of their job, some people will still have the means to fly (like I did in 2009 and 2010) but lot's of price conscious flyers won't be going to Disney for vacation, even with $49 bait and switch fares.

scubadu

And how is that behavior any different than any other recession?

Regards

AA100k

That’s quite a reach to blame AA for the MAX. Where’s the proof that AA pressured Boeing?

Spanish

Cannot agree more with you, AANYC1981. It's a bummer when I'm scheduled on any oasis product. I love the in-flight map, and I love the last row in First <specifically because of the full bulkhead privacy divider>. I chose AA originally when moving back to the states because of the privacy divider and 40" seat pitch. Now, both are going away!

I'm in CMH, so captive to nobody. My flight patterns still work best with AA, however.


I'd like to add that the frustration with the OASIS product is huge for me. The bulk of my flying is domestic USA, always hub connecting, and always I or D fares. To give passengers paying for domestic first such a lousy seat is ridiculous.

In addition, the on-time performance is an issue because of the following:
1) Hubs are banked...and therefore very short connecting times with an unreliable airline. Also, this is probably because of the banking and short turns at outstations required.
2) Upgrades are given out way too early -- they should be given at the gate 10 min before boarding <I know that's unpopular here, but when you miss a flight, you should get on the next one in your class of service>
3) You end up paying extra $$$ to take the early flight that you wanted when your 1st flight miraculously arrives on time and you SDFC onto your desired <short> connection that you didn't trust in the first place <so you bought the more expensive ticket with longer layover>. And then you find out that you could've taken the $300 less expensive flight with the short 50min connection. But, of course, no refund for that.....

Lots of issues going on here, but it appears that everybody has something different that's important to therm.

Operational reliability seems to be the big issue in this thread, though.....

travelgeek1197

I think this highlights where Parker and his team has consistently failed. You either have a plan where your FFP generates revenue from loyalty and this must make the premium cabins and coach+ (MCE) less premium because you know you will be giving a portion of it away to upgrades or you decide to fully monetize the premium cabins and MCE by investing in said product and the FFP is weekend.

They instead downgraded a product they were trying to monetize. Just one of many failures.

Cheers,
TG

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

In other words to flood the market with a bunch of cheap seats filled with price conscious consumers won't bode well in an economic downturn. You can park some planes. Ripping out seats (and presumably re-installing them when the economy recovers) isn't cheap. I don't know your age but I remember the period of 2000-2012. Airlines were going out of business, restructuring under Chapter 11, cutting capacity, introducing all kinds of schemes to try to stimulate air travel (including dirt cheap fares to generate cash flow which is what kept some of the airlines alive), firing employees, downsizing a/c, parking planes, etc. This was also before the days of the ULCC and the "densification" of a/c.

Today every airline is chasing the ULCC customer. When that ULCC demand gets depressed because peoples' financial picture changes or they feel threatened by the current economic environment there is going to be an excess supply of seats chasing fewer potential flyers. The airlines are setting themselves up for another nightmarish period. And today AA has a much younger fleet that will be more expensive to park.

IADCAflyer

AA is due to announce Q3 earnings on Oct 24. What are the odds that we have a replacement soon thereafter (based on Q3 results and after UA and DL have both reported (DL reports tomorrow)).

Wingtipflyer1

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Wingtipflyer1

Just think maybe in 30+ years if the kids from Stranger Things have a reunion episode, it could feature them flying AA in Oasis class.

richarddd

You're not going to get a quote from the BOD or management prior to an official announcement. It would not be unusual for this type of thing to be leaked in advance, to see the reaction if nothing else, and that reaction can affect the BOD's decision. Or it could just be click-bait rumor.

This wouldn't the first speculative thread on FT. And there are certainly a lot of rumors, e.g.,

SOBE ER DOC

Have you experienced the new DL One product? It is better than AA's Flagship First. The suites are the best of any US carrier and they are getting rolled out on every widebody. AA still has rear-facing seats in J and the torture that is the LUS 76s.

bchandler02

This is the point I was making a few posts back though. They are acting like they want to chase the ULCC customers (which likely aren't very profitable, but good for filling seats to break even) - but in reality they aren't.
Example: DFW/CUN 02/02/2020 to 02/08/2020
AA Basic Econ: $371
Spirit: $268

So tell me again how they want to compete with the ULCC market?

Finsup72

I respectfully disagree. The new DL One seat is too narrow and confined for me. Flagship First isn't private, but it's a huge seat and I actually like how there are no walls surrounding the seat and it gives you plenty of space. I really like the AA 777 J seats and it's fleet wide, unlike Delta who still runs their old and worn down 767's transcon and TATL. Yes, AA needs to replace their Zodiac seats, but overall I think AA has some of the best seats in the premium class, despite the less-than-premium service and far-from-premium WiFi on the 777s.

Sort of off-topic above, but Delta thinks customer-first whereas AA thinks money-first and that's the real difference between the airlines and the big fault of American.

txpenny

I have.
I agree.
I've been considering switching to DL even though I'm hub-hindered between DFW and TPA (majority of my travel). A less expensive 1-stop on DL is starting to sound better than AA's direct.

BWISkyGuy

Do you mean the LAA 76’s? The LUS ones have been gone for years and years now.

They don’t WANT to compete, they HAVE to compete. ULCC’s aren’t just a fly you can swat away anymore. When they enter a market, fares drop. It’s not just a certain type of people anymore, even business travelers find themselves having to fly them because of cost justifications. Many organizations — especially nonprofits — have to fly the absolute lowest fare on a route, and even when you plug back in the extras you absolutely need, ULCC’s often times still fare out lower.

There was a time the legacy carriers could just undercut the lower cost competitors until they choked them out, but in today’s environment they HAVE to compete until customers decide this isn’t the model they want again.