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potential involuntary downgrade or denied boarding on Award tomorrow

potential involuntary downgrade or denied boarding on Award tomorrow

Old Sep 7, 19, 6:06 pm
  #1  
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potential involuntary downgrade or denied boarding on Award tomorrow

I booked a flight to an EU destination in J using AA miles and it departs tomorrow morning. I will be traveling the first leg of the trip on AA and the final two legs on Iberia. I received three unanswered phone calls today from Iberia and when I called them back, they stated that the business class section was oversold and they wanted to route me on a new flight that left earlier in the morning and would involve an AA 767, which is different than the a350 that I originally booked. They also "held" this new routing for me and I could see it on my reservation through the app. I politely declined, as I didn't want to get up early in the morning and I consider the 767 J seat a downgrade from the a350 J seat. I asked if they were offering compensation if I re-routed my flight and they stated they would not. With that said, I believe there may be some potential tomorrow for an involuntary downgrade or boarding and I want to be prepared as possible and not put myself in a situation where I would be screwed from both a routing and compensation perspective. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 6:09 pm
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EC261. There's an authoritative and comprehensive big sticky thread on this in the BA forum which is a good starting point/tutorial.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
EC261. There's an authoritative and comprehensive big sticky thread on this in the BA forum which is a good starting point/tutorial.
How so? It’s a US carrier departing the US, not a ex-EU.

Last edited by enpremiere; Sep 8, 19 at 6:30 am Reason: Read OP's post too quickly
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by enpremiere View Post


How so? Itís a US carrier departing the US, not a ex-EU.
Iberia has the oversell not AA.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:25 pm
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Originally Posted by rendezvous View Post
.......they stated that the business class section was oversold and they wanted to route me on a new flight that left earlier in the morning and would involve an AA 767, which is different than the A350 that I originally booked.
Originally Posted by enpremiere View Post

How so? It’s a US carrier departing the US, not a ex-EU.
The full route details would help. My guess booked as AA-IB-IB operated flights. (XXX-MAD-YYY)
The long haul over water A350 would be IB, as IB have phoned. Not AA operated. Awards are on prime flight numbers (a very few limited exceptions)
Worth some study on EC261 -2004 regulations for time delay and class downgrade. Aircraft type J to J is not a downgrade

BA The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

AA GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 ďEUĒ complaints, compensation and AA

IB BA avios redeemed - IB 6274 ORD-MAD - 26 Sept 2018 - EU 261
IB IBERIA - Refusing Compensation and lies
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Last edited by Mwenenzi; Sep 7, 19 at 9:57 pm Reason: added second IB thread
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by rendezvous View Post
I booked a flight to an EU destination in J using AA miles and it departs tomorrow morning. I will be traveling the first leg of the trip on AA and the final two legs on Iberia. I received three unanswered phone calls today from Iberia and when I called them back, they stated that the business class section was oversold and they wanted to route me on a new flight that left earlier in the morning and would involve an AA 767, which is different than the a350 that I originally booked. They also "held" this new routing for me and I could see it on my reservation through the app. I politely declined, as I didn't want to get up early in the morning and I consider the 767 J seat a downgrade from the a350 J seat. I asked if they were offering compensation if I re-routed my flight and they stated they would not. With that said, I believe there may be some potential tomorrow for an involuntary downgrade or boarding and I want to be prepared as possible and not put myself in a situation where I would be screwed from both a routing and compensation perspective. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.
Originally Posted by enpremiere View Post


How so? Itís a US carrier departing the US, not a ex-EU.
No. It appears that the OP is flying AA-IB-IB with the 2nd segment being the overwater leg with the oversell problem.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:30 pm
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It would be a lot easier if OP would simply post the routing as it makes for better information.

But, as a general matter, if IB downgrades you, you will be due somewhere between 30 and 75% of the base fare for the downgraded segment. Presuming that the IB downgrade is for a TATL segment given the aircraft involved, it will be 75%. That might be a nice chunk of change.

If IB denies boarding, you will be due at least EUR 600, but will likely be better off claiming under the DOT rule which provides for 400% of the applicable fare up to a maximum of $1,350. If the reroute causes to arrive at your final ticketed destination more than 3 hours late, you will be due EUR 300 above that and if greater than 4 hours, EUR 600.

You may also negotiate with IB for different compensation if you are willing to accept avios or IB funny money (which you may not value).

As you can see, the details will matter so for accuracy and better advice, please post them unless you are on a secret mission.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:40 pm
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Sorry for not including the original itinerary, no secret mission here. Itís AUS-ORD-MAD-DBV with the first flight on AA and the other two on Iberia, all in J. They tried to put me on AUS-PHL (on AA in Y) and PHL-DBV on AA in J.

For clarification, the ORD-MAD leg on IB is oversold. It was the Iberia office that called me.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 7:40 pm
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Originally Posted by jerry a. laska View Post
No. It appears that the OP is flying AA-IB-IB with the 2nd segment being the overwater leg with the oversell problem.
Thanks, completely missed that!
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:03 pm
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Be careful with what you refuse - If you insist on your existing flights, you could be downgraded to economy with no comeback other than the 75% refund for that sector - it isn't obliged to do any more than reimburse for the downgrade

If you want to travel in business class , then I would seriously consider its offer - 3 sectors down to 2 sectors is a benefit - the AUS-PHL being in economy is an issue, but not as bad as a downgrade across the atlantic

Alternatively, if oversold, you may get offloaded and just rebooked on the 1st option it has out of ORD-DBV which may not be any better than what is currently on offer
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:24 pm
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Well ...MAD to DBV on IB is Euro J which is just Y with an empty seat.

I haven't flown the IB A350 but the AA 767 in J is definitely better than the IB A330 in J.

There's something to be said for the PHL to DBV in J.

But flights from AUS to PHL are mostly zero tomorrow. If you want J to PHL you'll have to connect.

And not sure how compensation on downgrades work work since you're on traveling on miles.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:26 pm
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
Well ...MAD to DBV on IB is Euro J which is just Y with an empty seat.

I haven't flown the IB A350 but the AA 767 in J is definitely better than the IB A330 in J.

There's something to be said for the PHL to DBV in J.

But flights from AUS to PHL are mostly zero tomorrow. If you want J to PHL you'll have to connect.

And not sure how compensation on downgrades work work since you're on traveling on miles.
75% of miles paid, allocated to segments by distance. This has been discussed extensively in the BA forum thread I mentioned upthread.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:33 pm
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I wouldn’t assume that IB is bluffing about the oversold status in J. Be glad they notified you in advance so you could still salvage the trip in J, even if it is on a lesser product. Frankly, I’d be happy to take the two segment swap and avoid the intra Europe flight on what they pass off as business class over there. The 767 J cabin isn’t great but it beats the Hell out of IB A350 in Y on a 9 hour flight. I wouldn’t tempt fate - take the deal.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:35 pm
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Originally Posted by rendezvous View Post
Sorry for not including the original itinerary, no secret mission here. It’s AUS-ORD-MAD-DBV with the first flight on AA and the other two on Iberia, all in J. They tried to put me on AUS-PHL (on AA in Y) and PHL-DBV on AA in J.

For clarification, the ORD-MAD leg on IB is oversold. It was the Iberia office that called me.
How keen are you on getting to DBV on time (or close to it)?
How keen are you on playing the EC261 game to get a benefit (ff miles and or $)? Or play the game and get very little or nothing.

To me AUS-PHK-DBV would seem a half reasonable outcome (less flights and less airport transit).
Any refund of AA ff miles the Y flight?. MAD-DBV will be nothing special.
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Old Sep 7, 19, 8:47 pm
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Originally Posted by AA100k View Post
I wouldnít assume that IB is bluffing about the oversold status in J. Be glad they notified you in advance so you could still salvage the trip in J, even if it is on a lesser product. Frankly, Iíd be happy to take the two segment swap and avoid the intra Europe flight on what they pass off as business class over there. The 767 J cabin isnít great but it beats the Hell out of IB A350 in Y on a 9 hour flight. I wouldnít tempt fate - take the deal.
I'm sure they aren't bluffing but I also would guess they called people after the OP and one of them might take the offer. That said, re:AA767 v IBA350 - are not the J seats on both pretty much the same? They are both staggered lie flat seats and look pretty similar.
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