AA Penalty for Selling My AA Miles

Old Aug 15, 2019, 1:28 am
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
Not necessarily. Although I haven't looked at the agreement, it could well be that what you're actually purchasing is a license (permission) to use the miles within the rules of the program. That's a common way to get around actual ownership. You also see it often with parking spaces at a condo building. You don't own the actual land that parking space 37 is on, you own an exclusive license to use the parking space numbered 37. Interestingly, in that type of arrangement, the condo management/association can renumber and thus relocate the spaces. You still then have a license to use the space numbered 37, even if it has been moved.
Yes, but I'd imagine that selling an "exclusive license" to an amount of miles would confuse many, and hiding it in fine print would be seen as a misleading advertisement, which is probably why most airlines go through the third party route.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 2:15 am
  #152  
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Originally Posted by diburning
Yes, but I'd imagine that selling an "exclusive license" to an amount of miles would confuse many, and hiding it in fine print would be seen as a misleading advertisement, which is probably why most airlines go through the third party route.
Sure, but the point is that you don't "own" the miles. They remain the property of AA, regardless of where you "buy" them, no?
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 2:30 am
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You are correct, but my point is that airlines go through the third party and don't sell directly so that there's no misunderstanding. "Airline A told me that they'd sell me these miles! What do you mean I don't own them? I bought them directly from Airline A!"
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 5:52 am
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Can't imagine there's -any- doubt that while offering the miles on craigslist seller was contacted at some point by a "buyer" and, then.. the result. As (almost) always, more to the OP's story than presented.

As far as the nonsense about if AAdvantage really "gets to do this" (i.e. do they have full authority over the miles they issue-- no matter how (yes, they do),) that's already been firmly established and explained in the main thread.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 5:58 am
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i completely understand that AA doesn't allow you to sell miles; but does anybody know why? i mean he paid for those miles and he's reselling them.. why would that not be allowed? i realize that you have to abide by AA terms of service; just curious as to why they care if you sell them if you have legally obtained those miles
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:01 am
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Originally Posted by omaralt
i completely understand that AA doesn't allow you to sell miles; but does anybody know why? i mean he paid for those miles and he's reselling them.. why would that not be allowed? i realize that you have to abide by AA terms of service; just curious as to why they care if you sell them if you have legally obtained those miles
Because they'd like as many of them as possible to go unused-- especially on the kind of flights that brokers/buyers are willing to pay people for their miles for.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:16 am
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
Because they'd like as many of them as possible to go unused-- especially on the kind of flights that brokers/buyers are willing to pay people for their miles for.
thats what i figured; and i realize that it's not only AA; i'm sure most (if not all) FF programs dont allow selling. but i strongly believe that when you buy something it's yours and you should be free to do with it as you wish (within reason)
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:27 am
  #158  
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Originally Posted by omaralt
... i strongly believe that when you buy something it's yours ....
See my comments a few posts upthread on this.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:32 am
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Originally Posted by diburning
You are correct, but my point is that airlines go through the third party and don't sell directly so that there's no misunderstanding. "Airline A told me that they'd sell me these miles! What do you mean I don't own them? I bought them directly from Airline A!"
However an airline sells miles in the US, the customer buying the miles is still subject to the airlines rules applicable to the purchased miles. Whether or not AW is engaged in various kinds of customer-unfriendly shenanigans with the miles, AA still owns the sandbox.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:44 am
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Originally Posted by omaralt
i mean how can they really know if you are selling the miles or just giving it to the homeless guy down the street out of the goodness of your heart?
They have analysts that determine this and do it very, very, very, very well-- don't be naive.

See

Main

Thread
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:47 am
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
They have analysts that determine this and do it very, very, very, very well-- don't be naive.

See

Main

Thread

i'm sure they try their best; but mistakes happen... imagine meeting a guy on the subway and you strike up a conversation. his mom is dying and he cant afford to go see her. you generously offer to buy him a ticket to go visit her with your miles. how does AA know if you sold the miles or not? they have no way to know if the guy slipped you a few hundred bucks.. so as good as you think they are; mistakes are bound to happen. the only reason the OP got caught is because he (stupidly) put his phone number on the ad
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:49 am
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Originally Posted by omaralt
i'm sure they try their best; but mistakes happen... imagine meeting a guy on the subway and you strike up a conversation. his mom is dying and he cant afford to go see her. you generously offer to buy him a ticket to go visit her with your miles. how does AA know if you sold the miles or not? they have no way to know if the guy slipped you a few hundred bucks.. so as good as you think they are; mistakes are bound to happen. the only reason the OP got caught is because he (stupidly) put his phone number on the ad
No, no and no.

Would say "nice try though"--but it wasn't.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 6:54 am
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Originally Posted by omaralt
i'm sure they try their best; but mistakes happen... imagine meeting a guy on the subway and you strike up a conversation. his mom is dying and he cant afford to go see her. you generously offer to buy him a ticket to go visit her with your miles. how does AA know if you sold the miles or not? they have no way to know if the guy slipped you a few hundred bucks.. so as good as you think they are; mistakes are bound to happen. the only reason the OP got caught is because he (stupidly) put his phone number on the ad
This was a situation of openly advertising a mileage sale on the internet, in one of the more highly visible places at that for trying to sell things. Very different than giving a ticket away to a homeless guy or some random person at the airport and not asking for something material back for it.

As much as I dislike some of the ways of the airline programs, its important to recognize that some situations cause problems for customers redeeming miles in a way that other situations dont.
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 7:07 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder


This was a situation of openly advertising a mileage sale on the internet, in one of the more highly visible places at that for trying to sell things. Very different than giving a ticket away to a homeless guy or some random person at the airport and not asking for something material back for it.

As much as I dislike some of the ways of the airline programs, its important to recognize that some situations cause problems for customers redeeming miles in a way that other situations dont.
completely agree. the only reason he got caught is because he put his number. i know some people think AA has some NSA trained analysts who but in reality AA would have had no way of identifying this person without setting up a sting operation
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Old Aug 15, 2019, 7:15 am
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These threads always devolve into a series of hypotheticals which have nothing to do with the facts of situation at hand.

This one is clear. It is a violation of the contract OP agreed to with AA to advertise miles for sale. He violated the agreement he chose to make. That is all there is to this one.

While it is probably true that there are any number of other frauds one could commit and not get caught, it is not always the case that they work and AA does not have to catch many people in order to make an impression.

These threads also suggest that the miles belong to the passenger. They do not. Not only does the passenger agree that they do not, but most of us would prefer that they do not. Nobody but a few gamers benefits from the tax implications of that. So, not somewhere I want to go in order to help out a few gamers.
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