AA Penalty for Selling My AA Miles
Aug 14, 2019, 1:52 pm
#106
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TX
Programs: AA: EXP MR: Ti
Posts: 495
it would seem innocuous enough, but I assume the prohibition exists because it could be used (or more probably was used, multiple times) as a front for a direct sale
Aug 14, 2019, 2:00 pm
#107
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: YEG
Programs: Table scraps from Aeroplan and AmEx Plat
Posts: 896
OP wrote that he intends to concentrate on proving his aunt is really his aunt. More relevant, as many have already noted, is if the aunt paid OP for the miles. Establishing a familial relationship may have some probative value, as it is less likely that one would receive payment or other consideration from a close(ish) relative. But if AA has already contacted the aunt and she copped to paying for them, then it's causa perduta.
I don't think the mere fact that one advertised 300,000 miles for sale should result in one forfeiting 300,000 miles. The T&C state that "Any [advertised for sale] mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration." It sounds to me that it's actually "closing the deal" that would trigger this serious penalty. The question then is what are the consequences of merely advertising, which itself a violation. The T&C, further down JDiver's post, provide a wide range of options available to AA, apparently in their discretion. But it doesn't seem right that the penalty for advertising only should be as severe as for actually completing the sale.
Edit: Just occurred to me that the miles becoming "void" in the T&C refers to miles already that have already been transferred to someone else or spent. In other words, the penalty is really on the recipient, not so much the person in OP's position.
Last edited by bambinomartino; Aug 14, 2019 at 2:07 pm
Aug 14, 2019, 2:01 pm
#108
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Bullet #3 clearly covers AA and any other property or rights holder.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 14, 2019 at 2:08 pm
Aug 14, 2019, 2:11 pm
#109
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,941
I am going to contest the email and prove she is my aunt.
I did post the AD on CL and had people reach out to me but no sale ever went thru.
My ad on CL stated 300K miles for sale, because I had more and I was struggling to get tickets for my travel so I deiced to see if I can sell and get my money back for what I paid for. I know they linked me thru my number because my ad did have my number posted and then with the timing me booking a ticket for my aunt for next year just collided thinking I sold my miles
I did post the AD on CL and had people reach out to me but no sale ever went thru.
My ad on CL stated 300K miles for sale, because I had more and I was struggling to get tickets for my travel so I deiced to see if I can sell and get my money back for what I paid for. I know they linked me thru my number because my ad did have my number posted and then with the timing me booking a ticket for my aunt for next year just collided thinking I sold my miles
Aug 14, 2019, 2:14 pm
#110
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,565
"aunt"
Aug 14, 2019, 2:25 pm
#111
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,565
I would have previously thought that donating miles or other travel certificates to a charity would be okay with the travel provider but not okay with the IRS if you tried to claim some sort of monetary value for the donation. That's probably also true, although it sounds like you're more likely to get busted by an airline than audited by the IRS!
Without opening many other cans of worms, I'll just say that I continue to believe it's in our best overall interest that miles are not legally our property and do not have a market value according to the IRS or other financial regulators, even though this means we live under rules that airlines unilaterally create. With increased rights of ownership in this area, the entire game couldn't exist. Accounting and regulatory rules would kill it.
Aug 14, 2019, 2:28 pm
#112
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,893
Not really related to the forfeiture of miles, but this really does highlight why it doesn’t make a lot of sense to take advantage of AA’s mileage sales unless you see the flights you want are available to book. Bloggers like Lucky at OneMileAtATime constantly advertise “excellent value” for spending $4,800 on AA miles when it is often very hard to use them for specific dates and locations. Unless you have total flexibility, buying miles ahead of time isn’t advisable. I know, I bought miles last year and struggle to find flights on my desired routes.
Aug 14, 2019, 2:43 pm
#113
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
eBay will release your name, It happen to me,
I received a warning letter, and told next time they would close my account,
This was not AA, it was WN, when they gave coupon trip passes, employees also sold passes on eBay back then,
I have given them away before they expired on FT, never had anymore problems.
Most of my miles are given away,
I received a warning letter, and told next time they would close my account,
This was not AA, it was WN, when they gave coupon trip passes, employees also sold passes on eBay back then,
I have given them away before they expired on FT, never had anymore problems.
Most of my miles are given away,
Aug 14, 2019, 3:08 pm
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
I recently bought last year AA miles when they had a bonus miles given for the purchase.
I had a total of 450K Miles in my account.
Recently I decided to put my miles 300K for sale on Craigslist since I wasn't using it and having a hard time getting tickets I wanted - but no interest from anyone.
My aunt told me to check her for if I could find her a ticket to travel for next year - I ended up booking a ticket for my aunt over the weekend since she needed the ticket I booked the ticket I ended up paying the taxes for her and this morning I got an email:
As a result of our findings, your AAdvantage account will be assessed a penalty of the amount offered for sale, 300,000 AAdvantage miles for violating AAdvantage program rules. The removal will include mileage attached to pending reservations. You will need to notify the passenger that their award tickets are no longer valid. Please understand that any future violations of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, without exception, will force us to terminate your AAdvantage accounts. This action will cause any previously accumulated mileage and accrued benefits to be forfeited, and you will be ineligible to participate in the AAdvantage program in the future.
I have not not been able to get hold of anyone via phone - all agents I spoke to said reply back to the email.
I bought the miles last year - I paid for the taxes for the current reservation, which has not been refunded back - they took out from my account 300K miles and cancel the reservation ? any advise what to do at this point ??
I had a total of 450K Miles in my account.
Recently I decided to put my miles 300K for sale on Craigslist since I wasn't using it and having a hard time getting tickets I wanted - but no interest from anyone.
My aunt told me to check her for if I could find her a ticket to travel for next year - I ended up booking a ticket for my aunt over the weekend since she needed the ticket I booked the ticket I ended up paying the taxes for her and this morning I got an email:
As a result of our findings, your AAdvantage account will be assessed a penalty of the amount offered for sale, 300,000 AAdvantage miles for violating AAdvantage program rules. The removal will include mileage attached to pending reservations. You will need to notify the passenger that their award tickets are no longer valid. Please understand that any future violations of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, without exception, will force us to terminate your AAdvantage accounts. This action will cause any previously accumulated mileage and accrued benefits to be forfeited, and you will be ineligible to participate in the AAdvantage program in the future.
I have not not been able to get hold of anyone via phone - all agents I spoke to said reply back to the email.
I bought the miles last year - I paid for the taxes for the current reservation, which has not been refunded back - they took out from my account 300K miles and cancel the reservation ? any advise what to do at this point ??
How did you buy 300K miles? That is over the limit AFAIK
Aug 14, 2019, 3:15 pm
#115
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Scotland
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 443
There are a lot of assumptions being made:
1. There is no indication that AA is aware of the CL ad or has linked it to the OP
2. The OP booked a ticket using miles for their aunt
3. AA cancelled the ticket and took the miles
The CL ad is a red herring and may be totally unrelated. AA may assume that the aunt is not in fact a genuine relation of the OP and thus assumes the OP sold the miles. If the aunt is genuinely related to the OP this may be resolved by proving this to AA.
1. There is no indication that AA is aware of the CL ad or has linked it to the OP
2. The OP booked a ticket using miles for their aunt
3. AA cancelled the ticket and took the miles
The CL ad is a red herring and may be totally unrelated. AA may assume that the aunt is not in fact a genuine relation of the OP and thus assumes the OP sold the miles. If the aunt is genuinely related to the OP this may be resolved by proving this to AA.
that is exactly whatI thought
Aug 14, 2019, 3:24 pm
#116
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Aug 14, 2019, 3:54 pm
#117
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Aug 14, 2019, 3:55 pm
#118
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 350
A couple of decades ago, before airlines required ID when flying, I had a multi-segment business trip booked by my company. Something came up, and the company decided I needed to stay in the office, and they sent a colleague in my place. The ticket was discounted, so it was not refundable. Without my knowledge, the company simply gave my tickets (with my AA number) to my colleague, and he flew under my name. On his segment home, he wanted to change flights. He never traveled with cash, so he presented his credit card for the change fee. The gate agent noticed the names were different, then seized the ticket and made some threats. He had to buy a new ticket.
He came home and told me the story, which unnerved me, to say the least. I received a letter from AA, informing me that it was a violation, but no no penalties were assessed - just warned never to do it again. They did revoke the miles awarded for that trip, which was fair.
He came home and told me the story, which unnerved me, to say the least. I received a letter from AA, informing me that it was a violation, but no no penalties were assessed - just warned never to do it again. They did revoke the miles awarded for that trip, which was fair.
Aug 14, 2019, 3:56 pm
#119
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MSN
Programs: AA, BAEC Gold
Posts: 3,927
I recall an offer in which the limit was raised and, with the bonus, added up to something like that for around $5,000. Worth it if you had a longhaul itinerary in F on hold but a lot of money to invest otherwise. It might have tempted someone who thought they could sell the miles when there were no deals available from AA.
Aug 14, 2019, 3:56 pm
#120
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
Folks, it does not matter if the lady for whom the award ticket was purchased was his aunt, mother, sister, best friend, boss or total stranger.
It is perfectly possible for a person to :
1. Give an award ticket to a non-relative
2. Sell/barter/trade an award ticket to a non-relative
3. Give an award ticket to a relative
4. Sell/barter/trade an award ticket to a relative
No one cares if the woman was really the OP's aunt. They care that miles were advertised for sale, and they came down hard to discourage repeat offences.
It is perfectly possible for a person to :
1. Give an award ticket to a non-relative
2. Sell/barter/trade an award ticket to a non-relative
3. Give an award ticket to a relative
4. Sell/barter/trade an award ticket to a relative
No one cares if the woman was really the OP's aunt. They care that miles were advertised for sale, and they came down hard to discourage repeat offences.