AA Penalty for Selling My AA Miles

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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:41 pm
  #16  
 
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How did the airline know it was you if you never sold them?
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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:44 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
Really poor advice imo to dispute the charge when the OP bought the miles last year. Never mind when they contact the airline for their side if the story.
I read it as dispute the taxes and fees on the now canceled ticket, not the miles purchase
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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:45 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
Really poor advice imo to dispute the charge when the OP bought the miles last year. Never mind when they contact the airline for their side if the story.
I am not suggesting to dispute the charge for the mileage purchase - I am saying that disputing the charge for the taxes charged on the award flight will be successful ( as referred to by the op asking about loosing (sic) taxes paid for the ticket )

There are no grounds to dispute the mileage purchase charge
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Old Aug 13, 19, 10:55 pm
  #19  
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Excerpted from the AAdvantage terms and conditions:

You are responsible for reading the AAdvantage® Program Terms and Conditions, additional member information, AAdvantage® newsletters and account summaries online at aa.com in order to understand your rights, responsibilities, and status under the AAdvantage® program. American Airlines may amend its rules of the Program at any time without notice. American Airlines has no liability for correspondence that is misdirected, lost, stolen, damaged or delayed.

At no time may AAdvantage® mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold, advertised for sale or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.

Use of award tickets that have been acquired by purchase or for any other consideration may result in the tickets being canceled, confiscated and/or the passenger being denied boarding. If a trip has been started, any continued travel will be at the passenger's expense on a full-fare basis. The passenger and member who attempts to use such a ticket may also be liable to American Airlines for the cost of a full fare ticket for any segments flown on a sold or bartered ticket.

Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as cancellation of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.

American Airlines reserves the right to audit any and all accounts at any time and without notice to the member to ensure compliance with AAdvantage® program rules and applicable conditions of carriage and/or tariffs. In the event that an audit reveals discrepancies or violations, the processing of AAdvantage® awards, mileage accrual and summaries may be delayed until the discrepancies or violations are resolved in a manner satisfactory to American Airlines. Pending such resolution, members may be prohibited from redeeming mileage credits for an AAdvantage® award or ticket as determined in American's sole discretion. — link[/QUOTE]

1) It doesn’t matter if you earned or purchased your AAdvantage miles. When you accepted them, unwittingly or wittingly you accepted the AAdvantage terms and conditions.

2) You may have been noticed trying to sell on Craig's List. By advertising the miles for sale, whether you sold them or not, you violated the AAdvantage terms and conditions.

3) If you received ANY consideration from your aunt, such as if she paid you for your acquiring an award ticket, you violated those conditions.

Your only hope is to be fully disclosing to AA, tell them your assumptions - e.g. you figured because you bought them you could sell them, whatever, and apologize. These folks are very good at what they do, and if lied to will not respond kindly.

This will eventually be merged into the thread Account audit / blocked / fraud: award / miles / SWU / sale, barter, etc..
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Old Aug 14, 19, 12:08 am
  #20  
 
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Aside from the fact the OP is toast because they broke the T+C’s, there has to be more to this story than provided in the OP if their aunt is genuinely their aunt.

how would AA be able to link an advert (that didn’t sell) on CL to an advantage account?

Suggests either the OP included sufficient personal details in the public advert which seems unlikely or AA had the ability to extract information from behind the scenes at CL and it matched an AA account which seems even more unlikely.

Thus, to me, this can’t be the complete story.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 12:42 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Bigbearcatcher View Post
how would AA be able to link an advert (that didn’t sell) on CL to an advantage account?

Suggests either the OP included sufficient personal details in the public advert which seems unlikely
Inadvisable, yes, but unlikely? Maybe not.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:11 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Bigbearcatcher View Post
...there has to be more to this story than provided in the OP if their aunt is genuinely their aunt...
The Internet is indeed an amazing thing and hopefully Auntie isn't too convenienced -

I constantly find myself in awe that I have so many estranged uncles residing in the deepest parts of the African continent who continually meet untimely demises in the same way that log books regrettably go missing on numerous AA flights. Fortunately these uncles were thoughtful and careful planners as they seem to have all contracted solicitors who use their own personal email accounts to track me down and alert me to the untold fortunes that await if I could just fork over the obscenely high ACH fees. As a prominent and upstanding member of FlyerTalk I cannot in good faith receive these life-changing riches knowing that there are others in need so I find it best that the fortunes of these dearly departed uncles go to the next in line.

It also never ceases to amaze that whether it's difficult or not to track down black market purveyors of AA upgrade instruments, miles, vouchers, etc... it doesn't make it any more ethical or right to engage in those sorts of activities. It's literally in the terms and conditions and unlike some fare rules, written in normal vernacular that is both transparent and easy to consume.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:36 am
  #23  
 
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I'm so curious how aa figured out you tried to sell them. Did you have any potential buyers that backed out of the sale?
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:40 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Bigbearcatcher View Post
How would AA be able to link an advert (that didn’t sell) on CL to an advantage account?

...either the OP included sufficient personal details in the public advert which seems unlikely or AA had the ability to extract information from behind the scenes at CL and it matched an AA account which seems even more unlikely.


I think either is possible. I take OP at his word. This is what likely happened:

OP offered miles on craig's list, which in itself is a big no-no.
American found out and connected the ad to the OP.
Does not matter whether the miles actually sold.
OP then innocently redeems miles for his aunt.
American naturally assumes aunt is the buyer.

As far as what OP should do next, I have no idea. He has lots of advice from others to choose from. I wish him luck.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 2:35 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by Gig103 View Post
I'm so curious how aa figured out you tried to sell them. Did you have any potential buyers that backed out of the sale?
If you place an add on Craig's List, wouldn't you need to leave a contact number or email address for a prospective purchaser to contact you? Both of those could easily be matched to an account in AA's database. The account could then be flagged to alert any susequent redemption/mile purchase activity.

If the connection between the seller & purchaser is done anonymously through Craig's List back-end, the purchaser could be an AA agent and gather the required information for identity.

It wouldn't surprise me if AA has scanning software for websites that bring private sellers & buyers together.

James
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Old Aug 14, 19, 3:28 am
  #26  
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There are a lot of assumptions being made:

1. There is no indication that AA is aware of the CL ad or has linked it to the OP
2. The OP booked a ticket using miles for their aunt
3. AA cancelled the ticket and took the miles

The CL ad is a red herring and may be totally unrelated. AA may assume that the aunt is not in fact a genuine relation of the OP and thus assumes the OP sold the miles. If the aunt is genuinely related to the OP this may be resolved by proving this to AA.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 3:44 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
There are a lot of assumptions being made:

1. There is no indication that AA is aware of the CL ad or has linked it to the OP
.
Unless the OP advertised elsewhere as well , then not sure where the amount of 300,000 stated by AA would have come from
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Old Aug 14, 19, 3:52 am
  #28  
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Maybe there was an AA employee undercover looking for such on CL and that’s how they found out after contacting the OP via CL.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 4:13 am
  #29  
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Just advertising for sale is a violation of T&C’s. Not sure what else OP can say to AA that would result in him getting miles back based on those terms. Not that it matters, but I’m wondering if AA knew about the ad somehow, but didn’t do anything until OP booked the “aunt’s” ticket as the trigger indicating that OP likely successfully sold the miles.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 4:29 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
Maybe there was an AA employee undercover looking for such on CL and that’s how they found out after contacting the OP via CL.
Op said there was no interest but is that the same as no one contacted him at all or someone asked but didn't buy?

I just googled 'craigslist and aa miles' and various entries came up from outright sale - 'meet me in a coffee shop and I'll book the flights bring cash or paypal' and someone offering an 'advice session for $$$' where an upgrade certificate would be applied to a booking made during the 'advice session'

I assume the 300k miles sale offer got someone's attention at AA possibly by someone just doing a regular search. Depending on how the OP set up their craigs list account it was easy for them to identify and they waited to pounce on the next booking the OP did using miles for someone other than themselves.

I guess this 'rocketsingh' isn't the 'salesman of the year'!
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