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DFW-TLV / Tel Aviv, Israel 3x weekly starting 9/9/2020

DFW-TLV / Tel Aviv, Israel 3x weekly starting 9/9/2020

Old Aug 8, 2019, 6:41 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by econometrics
For an airport with over 900 daily departures on American, we're talking about selling 735 PE and Y seats each week, and 90 J seats. Sounds pretty reasonable.
Thats my whole original point. The worlds largest airline, out of their largest hub, is too scared to attempt a daily service to a city the size of Tel Aviv. Its pathetic.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 6:52 pm
  #62  
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Originally Posted by DWFI
Thats my whole original point. The worlds largest airline, out of their largest hub, is too scared to attempt a daily service to a city the size of Tel Aviv. Its pathetic.
You can apply the same logic to question why AA isnt flying DFW-MNL.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:13 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by ikwia
AA's claim for this route is that it is for the tech business travelers. How common is it to target business travelers with only 3x a week service? It seems that would be rather limiting, whereas I'd think leisure travelers would be more tolerant of adjusting their dates to match the available flights.
Originally Posted by DWFI
Thats my whole original point. The worlds largest airline, out of their largest hub, is too scared to attempt a daily service to a city the size of Tel Aviv. Its pathetic.
Inadequate frequency is definitely a risk to builiding a following on the route. I could also see DL spoiling the party with a daily ATL flight, which would capitalize on a broader natural catchment area than DFW for connections (though would leave some unique to AA), as well as DL's existing strength in the corporate market to/from TLV.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:14 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
I don't think religioius tourism has any bearing on this launch. Business and secular tourism are the growth drivers supporting this flight (and also to a significant extent, the 2nd dailies from NYC on DL, UA), not growth in the religious (whether Jewish or Christian) market. Same factors behind VS' LHR-TLV launch and BA placing it's 350 on the TLV route.

AA will fill the flights with its own "followers" from all over the west, and probably points within a 2 hour flight east of DFW. We are talking about the AAdvantage faithful currently connecting via LY, IB, BA, etc. There will be a lot of California O&D on this flight.

That said, there is a huge Orthodox population in LA, probably more concentrated than anywhere outside NYC metro in the US.
Tell me about it, I used to live near Fairfax/La Brea.

HP and Intel have big ops there and there's many smaller tech/IT companies all over IL. I'm secular Jewish and I'd never been to Israel until I took this job which has had me there on six different trips, all on UA/LH. This new flight will work for me, ATL/DFW is short ride. I'm supposed to go back this fall, I hope. It's a gorgeous place.

I'd rather it went out of PHL but I'll take DFW vs the awful layover on BA at LHR.

Religious tourism to IL is pretty stable I'd think.

3x weekly isn't a problem IMO. Nobody does a flight of that length for two days. I always departed US late Thurs to arrive Friday afternoon on the UA flight, just before the Shabbat shutdown, and return on the noon-ish flight the following Friday or Saturday. which got me back to EWR in time for a short flight home. I hope the timing is similar; those midnight departures and early US arrivals are horrible.

Don't forget, the Israeli weekend is Fri/Sat. I was looking for which three days this operates but couldn't find it.

Ugh, just noticed this doesn't start service until Sept 2020! Looks like I'm on BA or RJ this fall.

Last edited by born sleepy; Aug 8, 2019 at 7:36 pm
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by trvlr70
Neither. The route is all about connections.
Originally Posted by ikwia
To where?
Lubbock.

AA will own the LBB-TLV market.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:29 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
this is a search for FOUR economy award seats, EWR-TLV:
sorry JonNYC but 1 week out is nothing and generally its about the same % of finding a Saver on UA EWR-TLV or TLV-EWR as Biz Saver on AA JFK-LAX or LAX-JFK

That said I think if the DFW-TLV works out or not will depend if they can secure a nice profitable cargo biz, TWA had such a good cargo biz going that at times they did better if they werent so full so that they could replace all the bags with cargo. Lost it when Flight 800 went down and they downsized to 767-100s till the 763s came on board, but still their take for cargo went way down and they lost alot of contracts since they werent able to handle the loads that were called for
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:36 pm
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Originally Posted by born sleepy

3x weekly isn't a problem IMO. Nobody does a flight of that length for two days. I always departed US late Thurs to arrive Friday afternoon on the UA flight, just before the Shabbat shutdown, and return on the noon-ish flight the following Friday or Saturday. which got me back to EWR in time for a short flight home. I hope the timing is similar; those midnight departures and early US arrivals are horrible.
Dont recall where I read it today but TLV-DFW is suppose to be the red-eye, which for those staying in a hotel on their own dime = an extra night having to pay for when checking out late evening. Didnt see any mention for the timing of the DFW-TLV flight. Both DL and UA have a flight each that sits over there for apx 8 hrs before returning as their red-eyes. while the afternoon flights to TLV pretty much turn right around and head back
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:45 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by craz
sorry JonNYC ..
No need-- you're not keeping up with the actual conversation.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 7:53 pm
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@JonNYC, what is your read on the reason for 3x weekly as opposed to, say 4x or 5x? Is it purely a conservative foray, or is it also about aircraft utilization, and available frames to do a 3-4x weekly attempt at one of the potential other destinations you've noted TBA?
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 8:11 pm
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Originally Posted by LINDEGR
Yes, after further review that is fair rebuttal. So I guess between Chicago and California there is a good base of potential customers for whom DFW is a good connecting point.
DFW makes no sense for connections out of Chicago; DFW-TLV directly overflies ORD, so it's exactly the wrong direction.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by ikwia
AA's claim for this route is that it is for the tech business travelers. How common is it to target business travelers with only 3x a week service? It seems that would be rather limiting, whereas I'd think leisure travelers would be more tolerant of adjusting their dates to match the available flights.
Well, having done a ton of overseas travel for business, I appreciate the convenience of multiple daily flights to any city, but on the other hand, I'm not often flying over to a faraway destination and expecting to fly right back the next day (full disclosure, not a CEO of a Fortune 500 company) .
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 9:08 pm
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Originally Posted by spongenotbob
Lubbock.

AA will own the LBB-TLV market.
OK, I just audibly snorted at that. Nicely done. 😁
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 9:52 pm
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Originally Posted by Antarius
You can apply the same logic to question why AA isnt flying DFW-MNL.
Couldn't disagree more.

UA and DL see no issue flying to TLV (up to 4x a day for the former, 2x a day for the latter). TLV isn't exactly a bleeding edge destination that needs trepidation.

None of the US3 fly to MNL, accordingly it would be quite a different (and bold) attempt to fly that 3x/wk. Same thing UA has done with CPT, for example, and AA has done to DBV.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 10:17 pm
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Originally Posted by DWFI
Couldn't disagree more.

UA and DL see no issue flying to TLV (up to 4x a day for the former, 2x a day for the latter). TLV isn't exactly a bleeding edge destination that needs trepidation.

None of the US3 fly to MNL, accordingly it would be quite a different (and bold) attempt to fly that 3x/wk. Same thing UA has done with CPT, for example, and AA has done to DBV.
Well to be fair, UA does serve GUM-MNL (daily) and ROR-MNL (2x weekly). But for MNL, I assume UA/AA both have the data from their TPAC JV on the number of passengers and the yield and it makes most sense for their partners to carry the traffic than fly non-stop from CONUS.
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Old Aug 8, 2019, 10:31 pm
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Originally Posted by born sleepy
I'd rather it went out of PHL but I'll take DFW vs the awful layover on BA at LHR.
...
3x weekly isn't a problem IMO. Nobody does a flight of that length for two days. I always departed US late Thurs to arrive Friday afternoon on the UA flight, just before the Shabbat shutdown, and return on the noon-ish flight the following Friday or Saturday. which got me back to EWR in time for a short flight home. I hope the timing is similar; those midnight departures and early US arrivals are horrible.
I'm relieved it isn't through PHL. AA just cut direct service to PHL from my home city, so I'd need to connect just to get to PHL. And even when there was service to PHL, it was an early morning flight, which isn't my preference, and that would have resulted in a very long layover (at least 8, maybe 12 hours) at an airport without a premium lounge (I suppose one could try to beg their way into the BA lounge).

I don't do a lot of overseas trips, but my trips are usually a day or 2 of work at the destination. My last trip to TLV was departing Sunday, arriving TLV Monday afternoon, meetings Tues and Weds, returning home Thurs AM. I believe the time prior I had only one day of meetings...pretty sure we left Friday to arrive Saturday, met Sunday, and then flew back Monday morning. But obviously this is a YMMV situation. Regardless of how long you want to stay, however, you still need the flights to line up with your dates.

I'm definitely with you on the late night departures being terrible! Unfortunately, the noon-ish flight doesn't usually put me back in the states in time for a connection home, so I haven't taken it, but would be interested if it works out. Were AA to do something like that, it actually might work out for me. But I suspect they will go for more of the midnight-ish return flight. But we'll see.

Originally Posted by spongenotbob
Lubbock.

AA will own the LBB-TLV market.
LOL, that was hilarious. But the OP implied this was about connections through TLV, so I was truly wondering to where. Obviously there will be lots of people connecting into DFW en route to TLV.

Originally Posted by linglingfool
DFW makes no sense for connections out of Chicago; DFW-TLV directly overflies ORD, so it's exactly the wrong direction.
I think people fly a bit "the wrong way" for lots of international flights. Just above a poster was talking about flying from ATL to DFW for this flight and didn't seem bothered by it. And looking at ORD specifically, if you want to go to TLV on the US3, connecting through DFW is as good of a choice from ORD as any other IMHO, especially if going through DFW lets you fly on your preferred carrier.
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