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due to weather, agent rebooked me to wrong airport 7900 miles away, should I fly?

due to weather, agent rebooked me to wrong airport 7900 miles away, should I fly?

Old Jul 28, 19, 8:29 pm
  #301  
 
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Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
It is illegal in the same way it is illegal to keep money erroneously transferred by a bank into one's account. One cannot just spend the $3M if one finds it there. It has to be returned to the bank. The consequences of absconding with the money would be an arrest for theft/conversion.
1. I'm pretty sure there is a difference (at least legally) between intentionally taking money with intent to deprive permanently (i.e., theft) and keeping money erroneously transferred into a bank account (which, at worst, seems like unjust enrichment).

2. Even if you are not allowed to legally keep money erroneously transferred into your bank account, it's not clear that OP in this case benefitted in the same way one would benefit if $3 million were erroneously placed in one's bank account. I think many would say that OP was actually highly inconvenienced.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 8:48 pm
  #302  
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Not that it matters, but for all we know, PGV is a more expensive ticket than PVG.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 8:54 pm
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Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
It is illegal in the same way it is illegal to keep money erroneously transferred by a bank into one's account.
There is a huge difference. When a bank erroneously transfer money into your account, its own balance sheet got reduced by that amount. When an airline puts you on a particular route by accident or not, its balance sheet does not change. So it can't argue it lost money. That's why the airlines route people all over during IRROPS.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 8:59 pm
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Originally Posted by flyingeph12 View Post
1. I'm pretty sure there is a difference (at least legally) between intentionally taking money with intent to deprive permanently (i.e., theft) and keeping money erroneously transferred into a bank account (which, at worst, seems like unjust enrichment).

2. Even if you are not allowed to legally keep money erroneously transferred into your bank account, it's not clear that OP in this case benefitted in the same way one would benefit if $3 million were erroneously placed in one's bank account. I think many would say that OP was actually highly inconvenienced.
Originally Posted by fttc View Post
There is a huge difference. When a bank erroneously transfer money into your account, its own balance sheet got reduced by that amount. When an airline puts you on a particular route by accident or not, its balance sheet does not change. So it can't argue it lost money. That's why the airlines route people all over during IRROPS.
I would not go out of my way to arrest or prosecute, but in my mind, what the OP did would constitute a Theft of Service.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 9:26 pm
  #305  
 
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Theft means A steal something from B. It has nothing to do with B gives something to A voluntarily.

Even if a bank gives you $3m by accident, it's not a theft, especially if you don't touch it. But if you steal something, even if you pay it entirely back, you are in violation of law and face penalties.

So there is a huge difference and calling this a theft is wrong.

Finally in this case, it's impossible for the airline to claim that it lost money.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 9:37 pm
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Originally Posted by fttc View Post
Theft means A steal something from B. It has nothing to do with B gives something to A voluntarily.

Even if a bank gives you $3m by accident, it's not a theft, especially if you don't touch it. But if you steal something, even if you pay it entirely back, you are in violation of law and face penalties.

So there is a huge difference and calling this a theft is wrong.

Finally in this case, it's impossible for the airline to claim that it lost money.
Here is the statute in my jurisdiction related to theft of service. You can argue all you want re applicability:

"(4) Obtaining services by deception. A person intentionally obtains services, known by the person to be available only for compensation, by deception, false token, or other means to avoid payment for the services. When compensation for services is ordinarily paid immediately upon the rendering of them, absconding without payment or offer to pay is prima facie evidence that the services were obtained by deception.

(5) Diversion of services. Having control over the disposition of services of another to which a person is not entitled, the person intentionally diverts those services to the person's own benefit or to the benefit of a person not entitled thereto."

FYI, I'm sure airline CPAs would school us all about fixed and variable costs leading to the pricing of airline tickets.
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Old Jul 28, 19, 9:45 pm
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Regarding (4), was deception involved if it's by AA's own mistake?

Regarding (5), so if AA upgrades you, it can come back afterwards and sue you saying "hey we upgraded you by accident and you are not entitled, so you have to pay us"? Note the word "intentionally" again.

Both of them having nothing to do with passively receiving.

Finally, it has nothing to do with ticket pricing. In the case where it's not scammed, AA has to prove that it lost money which it can't.
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Last edited by fttc; Jul 28, 19 at 9:52 pm
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Old Jul 28, 19, 11:19 pm
  #308  
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Originally Posted by fttc View Post
Theft means A steal something from B. It has nothing to do with B gives something to A voluntarily.

Even if a bank gives you $3m by accident, it's not a theft, especially if you don't touch it. But if you steal something, even if you pay it entirely back, you are in violation of law and face penalties.

So there is a huge difference and calling this a theft is wrong.

Finally in this case, it's impossible for the airline to claim that it lost money.
So, if someone gives you something in error, and you keep it, you don't think that is stealing?
A reasonable person would NOT have thought AA purposely gave someone a flight to a foreign location 7500 miles further than the domestic one they had paid to go to?
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Old Jul 28, 19, 11:21 pm
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post


It's absolutely nothing like that.

NOT to say that what the OP was trying to do was ethical etc.
Did OP knowingly gain something of value that a reasonable person would not have believed was anything other than a mistake?
If store clerk gives you change for $20 when you gave them $10, is it not stealing if you keep it?
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Old Jul 28, 19, 11:27 pm
  #310  
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Originally Posted by fttc View Post
Regarding (4), was deception involved if it's by AA's own mistake?

Regarding (5), so if AA upgrades you, it can come back afterwards and sue you saying "hey we upgraded you by accident and you are not entitled, so you have to pay us"? Note the word "intentionally" again.

Both of them having nothing to do with passively receiving.

Finally, it has nothing to do with ticket pricing. In the case where it's not scammed, AA has to prove that it lost money which it can't.
That depends. If AA told you they were upgrading you, then there is no reason for you to believe it was not warranted.
If you accidentally get upgraded for a reason you know to be invalid, and don't report it, then that is theft. That is much more difficult to prove than someone with a domestic ticket who has it changed, in error, to a point 7500 miles more distant with a similar code. A normal person would know it was an error. OP clearing indicated he knew it was an error, and still intended to take advantage of it. I would not blame AA, if they found out and canceled his AAdvantage account, with whatever miles he has in it
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Old Jul 29, 19, 12:10 am
  #311  
 
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This thread has veered way off course. If I were the OP, I wouldn't come back either at this point.
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Old Jul 29, 19, 1:23 am
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Originally Posted by mvoight View Post
If store clerk gives you change for $20 when you gave them $10, is it not stealing if you keep it?
Stealing is taking something, not keeping something given to you. There are cases when you shouldn't keep something, but that is a matter of honesty, not theft.

A better analogy to OP's flight rebooking is: what if I order california rolls, but upon delivery, I receive rainbow rolls, which are much more expensive. This happened to me yesterday. I just went ahead and ate the rainbow rolls. Did I steal from the restaurant? Was I dishonest?

Last edited by davie355; Jul 29, 19 at 1:29 am
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Old Jul 29, 19, 1:53 am
  #313  
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Originally Posted by davie355 View Post
Stealing is taking something, not keeping something given to you. There are cases when you shouldn't keep something, but that is a matter of honesty, not theft.

A better analogy to OP's flight rebooking is: what if I order california rolls, but upon delivery, I receive rainbow rolls, which are much more expensive. This happened to me yesterday. I just went ahead and ate the rainbow rolls. Did I steal from the restaurant? Was I dishonest?
No you were not. If you had not eaten the rainbow rolls, they would probably just have been thrown away.

If the OP did not take the erroneously booked flight to PVG or DUR or wherever he ended up, the seat would most likely have gone out empty.

The key here is intent. The OP did not set out to fly 8,000 miles for the price of 1,000, any more than you conspired to get bargain rainbow rolls.
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Old Jul 29, 19, 1:57 am
  #314  
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Originally Posted by davie355 View Post

A better analogy to OP's flight rebooking is: what if I order california rolls, but upon delivery, I receive rainbow rolls, which are much more expensive. This happened to me yesterday. I just went ahead and ate the rainbow rolls. Did I steal from the restaurant? Was I dishonest?
This is where context comes in.

If you find a newspaper on a train you aren't expected to try and find the owner, or hand it in to lost and found. If on the other hand you find a diamond ring on the train you will be expected to take reasonable steps to try and find the owner (or hand it to someone who can).

With your mistaken rolls, by the time they were returned they would have been ruined. Fair call to consume them. That's not what happened with this ticket.
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Old Jul 29, 19, 2:29 am
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Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
Here is the statute in my jurisdiction related to theft of service. You can argue all you want re applicability:

"(4) Obtaining services by deception. A person intentionally obtains services, known by the person to be available only for compensation, by deception, false token, or other means to avoid payment for the services. When compensation for services is ordinarily paid immediately upon the rendering of them, absconding without payment or offer to pay is prima facie evidence that the services were obtained by deception.

(5) Diversion of services. Having control over the disposition of services of another to which a person is not entitled, the person intentionally diverts those services to the person's own benefit or to the benefit of a person not entitled thereto."

FYI, I'm sure airline CPAs would school us all about fixed and variable costs leading to the pricing of airline tickets.
Tbh I think you need to find another jurisdiction where it's stricter. The bar to prove deception is reasonably high. Also I don't think a court will find all 3 of (1) the act of diverting, (2) the intention, and (3) the nexus between the act of diverting and intention satisfied-- they are all very iffy given the set of facts we currently have.
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