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-   -   What Can You Do if an AAgent Misinforms You? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1978495-what-can-you-do-if-aagent-misinforms-you.html)

AAdamE Jul 17, 2019 11:28 am
What Can You Do if an AAgent Misinforms You?
 
Rather than open a discussion if the passenger here is "right" or "wrong" this whole debacle makes me wonder what you could do if an AA rep on the phone genuinely misinforms you. Assuming they won't pull the call? Cliffs Notes: Passenger tried to change a basic econ ticket on a multi-trip was "told" to make a new flight, whole trip cancelled as first/original flight wasn't "taken"

Main Article: https://onemileatatime.com/american-...missed-flight/

Seems like it all boils down to what the phone rep ACTUALLY told him which we do not know. Did they tell him you need to book a new “flight” OR “trip/itinerary?” Sounds like he isn’t really detail oriented so I wouldn’t be surprised if he misunderstood what was being told to him. However, if they told him to book a new flight they DID mislead him.

Often1 Jul 17, 2019 12:07 pm
It''s always fact specific so there is no simple answer.

If the agent tells you there will be vanilla ice cream and it's chocolate, not much.

The facts in the body of the OP are not relevant because the information the passenger was provided was entirely correct. Thus, less than not much.

freeagent Jul 17, 2019 12:12 pm
I’d be willing to bet that the victim was unclear of the differences between ticket and flight.

no1cub17 Jul 17, 2019 12:17 pm
That poster is clearly an attention seeking clown. He claims to be going to a wedding in Dallas but had no idea what time it started? Is that a joke? Zero sympathy for him from me.

AAdamE Jul 17, 2019 12:46 pm
Originally Posted by no1cub17 (Post 31313962)
That poster is clearly an attention seeking clown. He claims to be going to a wedding in Dallas but had no idea what time it started? Is that a joke? Zero sympathy for him from me.
If I had to guess what actually happened is that they got the dates mixed up, and won't just admit that. I've been in a similar boat with UAL - wanted to take an earlier flight and was willing to pay the $56 basic Econ one way fare, but thankfully the agent warned me by not taking the 1st flight, I would lose my return flight. Had this not been made clear I would have been really frustrated.

enpremiere Jul 17, 2019 1:10 pm
Here is a printable guide:
  1. Join FlyerTalk
  2. Try to find relevant threads or Wikis (granted, not always that easy)
  3. HUACA
In some cases it’s about finding the right way to explain what is being asked and even gently ‘guiding’ the agent to the answer instead of informing them of how wrong they are.

ryan182 Jul 17, 2019 1:27 pm
"Panama Jackson is the Senior Editor of Very Smart Brothas."

Dunning–Kruger effect.

rickg523 Jul 17, 2019 1:31 pm
Originally Posted by no1cub17 (Post 31313962)
That poster is clearly an attention seeking clown. He claims to be going to a wedding in Dallas but had no idea what time it started? Is that a joke? Zero sympathy for him from me.
I guess no matter how the OP is framed, judgements about the competency/intelligence/personality of the individuals involved are impossible to resist.
Rather than open a discussion if the passenger here is "right" or "wrong"

mvoight Jul 17, 2019 2:04 pm
I do not think it is up to the phone agent to answer every question not asked.
He bought a "ticket" for his entire trip. He was told he needed to buy a new ticket. The assumption should be to buy a whole new ticket.
If you don't know much about traveling, use an agent

Antarius Jul 17, 2019 2:06 pm
This was the dumbest article I've ever read.

Uncle Nonny Jul 17, 2019 2:13 pm
I don't think the passenger will ever win. The GA will typically be backed up by the station agent. They work together, we're just passing through.

AA100k Jul 17, 2019 2:14 pm
I personally book approximately $25 thousand in AA tickets each year, none of which are non-changeable. Most are non-refundable and each time before I hit the purchase button on the website, I recheck my dates, flights, and all other information twice to make sure I don’t end up with an unforced error. I don’t expect AA, even with my status, to save me in the event I screw up or have a change. When you spend a lot of money on an unchangeable ticket you’re playing with fire. The AAgent probably neglected to tell him that he would forfeit the whole itinerary if he skipped the first part and I can see how that could happen but I don’t believe the AAgent was trying to screw him over.

Dallas49er Jul 17, 2019 5:22 pm
Originally Posted by AA100k (Post 31314360)
I personally book approximately $25 thousand in AA tickets each year, none of which are non-changeable. Most are non-refundable and each time before I hit the purchase button on the website, I recheck my dates, flights, and all other information twice to make sure I don’t end up with an unforced error. I don’t expect AA, even with my status, to save me in the event I screw up or have a change. When you spend a lot of money on an unchangeable ticket you’re playing with fire. The AAgent probably neglected to tell him that he would forfeit the whole itinerary if he skipped the first part and I can see how that could happen but I don’t believe the AAgent was trying to screw him over.
Taking responsibility for your actions. How unique in this day and age! Kudos.

Often1 Jul 17, 2019 6:10 pm
Originally Posted by AA100k (Post 31314360)
I personally book approximately $25 thousand in AA tickets each year, none of which are non-changeable. Most are non-refundable and each time before I hit the purchase button on the website, I recheck my dates, flights, and all other information twice to make sure I don’t end up with an unforced error. I don’t expect AA, even with my status, to save me in the event I screw up or have a change. When you spend a lot of money on an unchangeable ticket you’re playing with fire. The AAgent probably neglected to tell him that he would forfeit the whole itinerary if he skipped the first part and I can see how that could happen but I don’t believe the AAgent was trying to screw him over.
Exactly.

Agents are neither mind readers nor nannies.

The caller's question and the answer were all in the fare rules and COC which he acknowledged reading and understanding at the time of the original purchase. I don't necessarily read the 17 pages of fare rules for every ticket I purchase, but it is on me that I don't and furthermore, the complete inflexibility of BE fares is not merely in the fare rules but has its own column and warnings on the AA site.

deeruck Jul 17, 2019 7:28 pm
Having read the OMAAT post and not the blog post, it's unclear why he didn't go to Orbitz to sort out a change. Did he skip that part from his story because they made clear it was a non-changeable non-refundable ticket?

Originally Posted by AA100k (Post 31314360)
I personally book approximately $25 thousand in AA tickets each year, none of which are non-changeable. Most are non-refundable and each time before I hit the purchase button on the website, I recheck my dates, flights, and all other information twice to make sure I don’t end up with an unforced error. I don’t expect AA, even with my status, to save me in the event I screw up or have a change. When you spend a lot of money on an unchangeable ticket you’re playing with fire. The AAgent probably neglected to tell him that he would forfeit the whole itinerary if he skipped the first part and I can see how that could happen but I don’t believe the AAgent was trying to screw him over.
Reminds me of the time I booked a BOS-EWR one way on B6, then booked my return later. Come the day of the return, realized I had booked BOS-EWR twice, so hopped on a train back to Boston. You live and you learn, and it's not always someone else's fault.

lupine Jul 17, 2019 9:17 pm
Not saying that he was the sharpest crayon in the box, but really: If you buy a non-refundable round-trip ticket, you OUGHT to be entitled to use either or both segments.

no1cub17 Jul 17, 2019 9:22 pm
Originally Posted by lupine (Post 31315387)
Not saying that he was the sharpest crayon in the box, but really: If you buy a non-refundable round-trip ticket, you OUGHT to be entitled to use either or both segments.
That's an entirely different can of worms. Much different issue than the blog post.

Dave Noble Jul 17, 2019 11:49 pm
Originally Posted by lupine (Post 31315387)
Not saying that he was the sharpest crayon in the box, but really: If you buy a non-refundable round-trip ticket, you OUGHT to be entitled to use either or both segments.
I agree - as long as it is a ticket made up of 2 x one way fares. Shouldn't be penalised for having them in a single booking
If it is a round trip fare, then see no reason why someone OUGHT to ro be able to just use the inbound sector

mvoight Jul 18, 2019 2:31 am
Originally Posted by lupine (Post 31315387)
Not saying that he was the sharpest crayon in the box, but really: If you buy a non-refundable round-trip ticket, you OUGHT to be entitled to use either or both segments.
In many cases, it is less expensive to buy a ticket with a connection less than the cost for a nonstop to the connection point or from the connection point.
I noticed this a bit when looking at flying to Buenos Aires. It is possible to fly MIA-EZE-MIA for less than flying DFW-EZE-DFW, even if the ticket to / from Miami includes at connection at DFW.
There are multiple reasons for this, one being non stop trips re generally considered more attractive than with connections. Additionally, if you are going to connect to a destination there are more airline options. Increased competition lowers the price.
If you could dump any segment and keep the remaining, people would simply buy the lower fare ticket. Tickets are sold point to point. The rules for basic economy permit the ticket to be used as purchased or it has no value. The difference between a Basic Economy ticket and an economy ticket are what distinguishes the value of the tickets. If there were no differences, the airline wouldn't be able to sell higher priced tickets. By taking the lower price offer, you agree to give up benefits. It is important to understand what they are before buying the ticket.

javabytes Jul 18, 2019 2:50 am
Originally Posted by mvoight (Post 31316028)
In many cases, it is less expensive to buy a ticket with a connection less than the cost for a nonstop to the connection point or from the connection point.
I noticed this a bit when looking at flying to Buenos Aires. It is possible to fly MIA-EZE-MIA for less than flying DFW-EZE-DFW, even if the ticket to / from Miami includes at connection at DFW.
There are multiple reasons for this, one being non stop trips re generally considered more attractive than with connections. Additionally, if you are going to connect to a destination there are more airline options. Increased competition lowers the price.
If you could dump any segment and keep the remaining, people would simply buy the lower fare ticket. Tickets are sold point to point. The rules for basic economy permit the ticket to be used as purchased or it has no value. The difference between a Basic Economy ticket and an economy ticket are what distinguishes the value of the tickets. If there were no differences, the airline wouldn't be able to sell higher priced tickets. By taking the lower price offer, you agree to give up benefits. It is important to understand what they are before buying the ticket.
While you’re not wrong, this entire byzantine system is imposed by the airline. Airlines have not made themselves easy to do business with. Should an average customer really have to concern themselves with 17 pages of fare rules and familiarizing themselves with things like no show policies all on their own, just to buy transportation? It’s a crap customer experience, and one put in place for the sole benefit of airlines who want to squeeze every last penny out of every single customer. Now, this guy is enough of a bozo that it’s hard to take him seriously, but plenty of other people get caught in this trap too, and they have a point.

If a customer has a 3-leg multi-city trip, and an agent tells them they can’t change the first leg because it’s basic economy, and that same agent books them a new flight instead, it should be clear to the agent that the customer is planning to skip the existing first leg. The agent should know the customer still wants to fly legs 2 and 3 because they didn’t ask to change them. It is the agent’s job to obtain the customer‘s desired itinerary and sell the appropriate ticket. Advising the customer of the no-show policy and the impact to the remainder of the existing ticket is a basic expectation. This agent either sold the guy a ticket knowing it did not meet his needs and failed to make him aware, or the agent did not know about the no-show policy. Neither is acceptable.

USFlyerUS Jul 18, 2019 5:32 am
I have no sympathy for the blog poster. You can't no show for the first leg and expect the rest of the flights to remain as-is. It's been this way for decades. Hotels are no different. If you no show on the first night, your reservation is cancelled unless you've called to make a change.

We also only got one side of the story. None of us were on the call with the agent or have heard a recording of the call. I would want to hear this call before saying the agent failed in some way. Given the rant in the blog post, my hunch is the agent tried to explain this and he refused to listen.

deeruck Jul 18, 2019 6:30 am
Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 31315722)
I agree - as long as it is a ticket made up of 2 x one way fares. Shouldn't be penalised for having them in a single booking
If it is a round trip fare, then see no reason why someone OUGHT to ro be able to just use the inbound sector
Does any airline treat it this way, or is it universal that all remaining segments in a ticket (or locator?) are cancelled?

swag Jul 18, 2019 8:31 am
So here's the thing. He paid $1300 for the original flights, 3 weeks in advance. His total for the rebooked close-in flights was $500 + $1400 = $1900.

When he had called to rebook, if that agent had been completely clear that his whole reservation would be canceled, the end result would have been about the same. He'd still be out at least $1300 and likely close to $1900, and still be .....ing about it on his blog.

Often1 Jul 18, 2019 8:50 am
Originally Posted by deeruck (Post 31316488)
Does any airline treat it this way, or is it universal that all remaining segments in a ticket (or locator?) are cancelled?
As a window on what can happen, German law requires that carriers offer tickets which need not be flown in segment-issued order. Thus, those tickets are available. They are vastly more expensive than "standard" tickets. Spanish courts have recently required the same.

freeagent Jul 18, 2019 9:45 am
Originally Posted by javabytes (Post 31316059)

If a customer has a 3-leg multi-city trip, and an agent tells them they can’t change the first leg because it’s basic economy, and that same agent books them a new flight instead, it should be clear to the agent that the customer is planning to skip the existing first leg. The agent should know the customer still wants to fly legs 2 and 3 because they didn’t ask to change them. It is the agent’s job to obtain the customer‘s desired itinerary and sell the appropriate ticket. Advising the customer of the no-show policy and the impact to the remainder of the existing ticket is a basic expectation. This agent either sold the guy a ticket knowing it did not meet his needs and failed to make him aware, or the agent did not know about the no-show policy. Neither is acceptable.
In the full blog post the blogger mentions that he booked his new flight on his own not on the phone with the agent. The agent most likely mentioned that he needed to buy a new ticket, which the blogger assumed to be just a new flight from DCA to DFW and not a entirely new ticket. I do agree the agent should have been more clear with the policy of no showing.

no1cub17 Jul 18, 2019 10:33 am
I stopped reading at "I booked a ticket to a wedding but didn't know what time the wedding was." I'm sorry but what?

javabytes Jul 18, 2019 11:03 am
Originally Posted by USFlyerUS (Post 31316346)
I have no sympathy for the blog poster. You can't no show for the first leg and expect the rest of the flights to remain as-is. It's been this way for decades. Hotels are no different. If you no show on the first night, your reservation is cancelled unless you've called to make a change.

We also only got one side of the story. None of us were on the call with the agent or have heard a recording of the call. I would want to hear this call before saying the agent failed in some way. Given the rant in the blog post, my hunch is the agent tried to explain this and he refused to listen.
A key difference here is that many hotels, at least in the major chains, will allow free cancellation up until 24-48 hours in advance unless you chose a non-refundable rate. The difference between refundable and non-refundable hotel rates is considerably less than the difference between refundable and non-refundable airfare, and thus refundable hotel reservations are accessible to far more people. And most importantly, while a hotel will cancel the rest of your refundable reservation in case of a no-show, they typically only charge you for the one night you missed. So you’re not royally screwed, and can just book yourself another hotel for any remaining nights without being out extra cash.

AAdamE Jul 18, 2019 2:00 pm
Originally Posted by deeruck (Post 31316488)
Does any airline treat it this way, or is it universal that all remaining segments in a ticket (or locator?) are cancelled?
Southwest LOL. I made a similar mistake back in the day on AA. I did an open jaw ORD->LAX->LAS->ORD and put the return leg a week after it was supposed to be. I called between 48-72 hours and was told to pound sand because it was beyond the 24h change window. Instead of fighting I asked the agent how they would feel if they were in my shoes and they said they would be willing to split the change fee and let me fly home out of LAX because the flight price was cheaper.

Lessons learned:
-Be accountable
-Be polite
-Be realistic

AAdamE Jul 18, 2019 2:03 pm
Originally Posted by no1cub17 (Post 31317277)
I stopped reading at "I booked a ticket to a wedding but didn't know what time the wedding was." I'm sorry but what?
Also judging by the tone of the author of the blog post - I would imagine he was in attack mode and wasn't listening. BUT how many of us on here call and get three different answers to the same question?

deeruck Jul 18, 2019 3:02 pm
Originally Posted by AAdamE (Post 31318063)
Southwest LOL.
Good reminder. Have previously benefited from WN's generous policy myself.

USFlyerUS Jul 18, 2019 6:45 pm
Originally Posted by AAdamE (Post 31318072)
Also judging by the tone of the author of the blog post - I would imagine he was in attack mode and wasn't listening. BUT how many of us on here call and get three different answers to the same question?
This is my pet peeve with many companies these days, not just AA. I swear people just make stuff up. I see it in my day job all the time. People say "it's the policy" when there's no such thing. The days of people learning their jobs, being properly trained, being motivated to do them well, etc. are over.

synzero Jul 24, 2019 7:59 pm
The blog post author made it clear that the main reason he was pissed wasn't just over AA policy but the fact that the agent didn't inform him that if he missed his first segment they would cancel the rest of his itinerary. Although he was irate in the post I don't see any reason to doubt that the agent failed to inform him of this as he claims. He said that had he been informed he would have kept his original itinerary and simply missed the ceremony. I imagine he could still have attended the reception, etc.

To my mind, it's pretty terrible customer service for the airline agent to have let him rebook just the first segment and not informed him his further itinerary would be cancelled.

Furthermore -- had the agent informed him of this -- he might have been able to rebook the whole itinerary with another airline or airlines which might have been cheaper.


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