jacket1

Gregory Nelson

We don't have the exact details of the OP's original fare and the lead time used to purchase the ticket. But it's very unlikely that $203 is even close to an accurate reflection of what the OP could have booked a Y ticket for at the time of purchase.

Just to illustrate how unfair and inaccurate AA's ridiculous version of the fare difference likely is, I did a dummy booking of a RT flight along just this leg - PHL-TXL, for the dates 8/19/19 to 8/29/19, so 30+ days out, 7+ day duration.

Business Class (I) : $3,087
Main Cabin (Q): $627

Difference: $2,460, or $1,230 each way. ;(

Much more likely that they charged him for a walk-up day-of-flight one-way fare in Y, then credited him the discounted I fare for this segment.

Then again, perhaps OP should be thankful that the full Y fare wasn't MORE than the value of his segment, and that AA isn't demanding he pay EXTRA for his downgraded seat.

In any case, I agree that AA has completely failed at both the $$ end of things AND the customer service part. (10K miles for a forced downgrade??? I got 25K miles, unsolicited, for an equipment change that kept me in Business class, but with angle-flat instead of lie-flat seats.)

I encourage the OP to demand an exact accounting of how his paltry "refund" was computed.

mcjava

Just saw this thread, and the compensations etc is totally inadequate.

Question: it seems the GA was going with what she saw as the path of least resistance (OP is young, polite, seems like he won't throw a fit). Could they not have said the FA needs the seat for takeoff and landing, but you can move there during the flight?? Please sit in economy now so we can takeoff quickly, but once to cruising altitude, the business seat is yours??

Exec_Plat

Talk to your credit card company. You had a ticket in J; they didnt fly in J...demand 100% of the money back. Keep it short and sweet. Dont argue about 'how much the fare difference should be'... You didnt fly in Biz; and you didnt agree when you bought the ticket to 'fly whatever cabin they want at flight time and take a refund if it isnt Biz'.

100%. Let AA deal with them.... in the end if AA doest address it within the CC company's window, you win.

Dave Noble

That would be a valid option if the passenger had refused to travel

stephem

Dave Noble

I have spoken to AMEX in the past regarding a downgrade and it stated that a chargeback could not be done for the price since the journey was taken
If the journey had not been taken then a chargeback for failure of providing service would have been ok

AA uses its own defined compensation process, which doesn't seem good - this would seem to be a case for a small claim once have come up with a justifiable amount.

ijgordon

But you did agree to that, it's in the conditions of carriage, under "Involuntary Denied Boarding."
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...versoldflights

Of course we could debate the merits of the contract of adhesion, and you can (and should!) absolutely dispute the vague language about "an appropriate refund", but there's really no basis on which to initiate a chargeback.

I think DOT complaint followed by small claims court is the way to go if the normal customer relations avenues don't work.

HKG_Flyer1

The way AA is handling this is inexplicable and offensive.

moondog

While the CoC definitely takes most of the wind out of the sales of the chargeback approach, does the OP have anything to lose by trying? IMO, this doesn't make him look greedy because most AA customers never even glance at the CoC...and it's not presented in a "click here to acknowledge" manner.

As far as steps that are more likely to work, I only have two data points myself, both involving disputes with UA. The first time I went the DOT route, and the second time I used the IL attorney general. I got successful resolution both times, but I sensed UA feared the AG more than the DOT.

I suppose SCC is also an option, but I have a preference for avoiding courts when other avenues exist.

No matter how the OP decides to proceed, I agree with those who have suggested that he should be collecting screenshots of economy fares on his route. I would try to get around ten in order to demonstrate I wasn't cherry picking dead days.

flymeAAway

It sucks and agree you should be getting more- both in refund (what your would have paid at the time of purchase) and in goodwill comp. for the downgrade and for AA not following there own procedures as I don't think the GA followed policy simply to get the flight out. Keep in mind these are subjective:

1. The GA has authority to do exceptions to get planes out on time, especially to meet restated departure times on an already delayed flight. Sounds like you were the quickest option rather than risk a further delay.
2. You purchased a discounted premium business/ first cabin (they don't always work well in IOPS and may carry special conditions) and you flew in premium economy rather than economy. That is how they will reprice it, so your fare refund might not be that far off.
3. Keep in mind your downgraded compensation is based on your value to AA and other accommodations they may have extended previously. This use to be your Eagle score but not sure it still is used anymore.

Just because it was "your seat" that was needed, doesn't mean you should have been selected. I was surprised to see that you as an EXP, booked weeks in advance and in I class, you were selected. Most likely expedience at departure.

My question, for future situations, does anyone know what is AA's downgrade policy? I was told many years ago by a befriended GA that the downgrade order went:

Fare Code
Elite Status
Time of purchase/ upgrade

ijgordon

I mean, the value of his time and potential retribution from the credit card company (the latter being obviously very unlikely unless he's a serial chargebacker). But yes, in reality not really much to lose, I think we're just setting expectations.

Maybe it depends on the state, but it's not clear how involved AGs get with individual disputes unless there's some pattern of complaints, but I don't have a ton of experience here. The DOT at minimum requires the airline to formally respond to the complaint, so it at least causes the dispute to go in front of someone with half a brain, and often that's enough for them to do the right & logical thing.

SCC is a relatively informal process with minimal fees (for the consumer), and based on experiences posted here, often will drive AA to a settlement. I agree it's one of the last resorts, but certainly a reasonable option. Obviously the best solution is a "preventative" one, screenshots of the lower-cabin fares from the time of booking. I always save these when purchasing a premium class fare.

Even better might be actual historical fare listings from ExpertFlyer, one can find a fare in the cabin flown with similar restrictions to the originally purchased fare on the original date of purchase, and use that. There's no way to prove booking class availability, but AA probably can't do that down to the minute either, given how frequently it can change.

jordyn

That section is about what happens if there's an oversale and you can't fly at all, not what happens if you get downgraded to another cabin of service.

I was actually expecting this situation to be covered in the "Involuntary Refunds" section, but it's not addressed there, either. As far as I can tell, there's no language in the conditions of carriage that allows AA to downgrade you and give a refund for the fare difference. Can you point to any specific language that does?

moondog

You will NOT receive involuntary denied boarding compensation if:

• You fail to comply with American’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you’re not acceptable for transportation under American’s usual rules and practices.
• Your flight is canceled.
• We switch to a smaller plane for safety or operational reasons.
• Your plane has 60 or fewer seats and there are safety-related weight/balance restrictions.
• You’re offered a seat in a section of the plane that’s different from your original ticket. If you are seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged, you will be given an appropriate refund.
• We’re able to get you to your next stopover or final destination within 1 hour of your original arrival time.

jordyn

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. It's actually debatable if that provision applies if there's no oversale, but it does seem like the most relevant language.

But it says you'll be given an "appropriate refund". Seems like a perfectly valid credit card dispute is that they didn't give an appropriate refund.