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need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

Old Jul 5, 19, 10:59 pm
  #91  
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Most B2C commerce websites have a feature (often flagged on the page if you're taking too much time) that the stuff in your "cart" will expire in X minutes if the purchase isn't completed by then. Can anyone think of a reason why AA wouldn't do the same?
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Old Jul 5, 19, 11:10 pm
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Most B2C commerce websites have a feature (often flagged on the page if you're taking too much time) that the stuff in your "cart" will expire in X minutes if the purchase isn't completed by then. Can anyone think of a reason why AA wouldn't do the same?
Might hurt the bottom line.

The thought of having to fly UA prevents most of us from being AA website weirdos, though.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 11:16 pm
  #93  
 
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS View Post
Iím happy you got one over on AA for a while. Itís good to see a little guy stick it to the big 3 every so often. They have no problem screwing us over with fees, horribly uncomfortable cabins and devaluations.

Now theyíve caught you and will try to hurt you. Your only power here is walking away and not flying AA ever again, then they really canít do anything to you. You had 3 good years screwing them over. Give em the middle finger salute on the way out and move your biz elsewhere.
Attitudes like this are a perfect example of how the few ruin things for the rest of us.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 11:20 pm
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Attitudes like this are a perfect example of how the few ruin things for the rest of us.
Attitudes like this are why corporations walk all over people now. Enjoy your forced arbitration!
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Old Jul 5, 19, 11:34 pm
  #95  
 
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Originally Posted by linglingfool View Post
OP can answer, but I can see niche cases where it would be useful if OP was having his travel expenses reimbursed over a time horizon that was greater than the grace period on his card, but less than 6 months.
That sounds like University accounting procedures -- Reimbursements for travel typically take 2-5 months to get fully approved and processed (not just at the university I am at now, but nearly all universities). Anyways, I've never heard of this credit card either, but it seems like AA's equivalence of what 'CareCredit' is for medical expenses -- a way to get a 0% rate on a purchase as long as you pay in full by a certain time, otherwise you get sucker punched with a usurious interest rate that gets applied and backdated to the entire credit period. I used CareCredit (successfully, with regards to avoiding the interest hit) back in my younger poorer days when I needed a medical procedure that was quite costly compared to my income at the time (before I had an HSA to pay for such things, and the expense still could only barely touch my high deductible -- but that's for an OMNI thread). The FlyNow/PayLater looks very much like it is targeted for similar demographics (little/no credit; geared for that consumer that needs/wants to make a one time airline purchase that is expensive compared to income and thus needs to pay it off over time); i.e. not typically a FT poster! These cards get hairy when you make multiple purchases on them, usually nullifying a significant part of the zero percent if you pay it off in time benefit (read the fine details on how payments get credited when you have one or more deferred interest purchases and/or other non deferred interest purchases). So, I get that someone may have a regular card that is expired that they accidentally used a couple times (though after a couple times of having to call to complete a transaction, even a sane stressed busy person would probably go in and delete it off their profile). But an odd 'fly now/pay later' card? For a decently frequent flyer? After so many times having to call to pay by another means? Maybe the OP is a financial and personal mess (must be both). Or, maybe, there is something more to it.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 1:01 am
  #96  
 
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Originally Posted by rumboj View Post


Even if he did ultimately pay for all the itineraries, there is still the issue of taking fares out of inventory. By the date he gets around to calling in with a valid payment, he may be paying less than the fare would have been had he purchased outright at the later date.

AA is trying to send a clear message and they have to be tough to send it.
I don't think this is correct, the fare locks in at the time of booking, and then he paid it. If the OP has indeed paid for all the tickets, as he claims, and never cancelled even one, then I don't see how AA has any damages or a claim here, and they should not confiscate his miles.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 1:02 am
  #97  
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Originally Posted by MarkOK View Post
That sounds like University accounting procedures -- Reimbursements for travel typically take 2-5 months to get fully approved and processed (not just at the university I am at now, but nearly all universities). Anyways, I've never heard of this credit card either, but it seems like AA's equivalence of what 'CareCredit' is for medical expenses -- a way to get a 0% rate on a purchase as long as you pay in full by a certain time, otherwise you get sucker punched with a usurious interest rate that gets applied and backdated to the entire credit period. I used CareCredit (successfully, with regards to avoiding the interest hit) back in my younger poorer days when I needed a medical procedure that was quite costly compared to my income at the time (before I had an HSA to pay for such things, and the expense still could only barely touch my high deductible -- but that's for an OMNI thread). The FlyNow/PayLater looks very much like it is targeted for similar demographics (little/no credit; geared for that consumer that needs/wants to make a one time airline purchase that is expensive compared to income and thus needs to pay it off over time); i.e. not typically a FT poster! These cards get hairy when you make multiple purchases on them, usually nullifying a significant part of the zero percent if you pay it off in time benefit (read the fine details on how payments get credited when you have one or more deferred interest purchases and/or other non deferred interest purchases). So, I get that someone may have a regular card that is expired that they accidentally used a couple times (though after a couple times of having to call to complete a transaction, even a sane stressed busy person would probably go in and delete it off their profile). But an odd 'fly now/pay later' card? For a decently frequent flyer? After so many times having to call to pay by another means? Maybe the OP is a financial and personal mess (must be both). Or, maybe, there is something more to it.
I can foresee why having access to and utilizing a six-month interest-free loan for travel purchases may be the financially and personally responsible thing to do. Interest-free loans with no fees can be an investorís dream.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 1:21 am
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
Useful advice as usual.

Sometimes he likes cryptic responses, generic one liners like an oracle or a fortune cookie, like ďYou will soon change airlinesĒ.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 1:39 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer View Post
Found out the other morning this is incredibly easy to do. I started a reservation on my phone app, was distracted after selecting a seat but before paying, then eventually made the reservation via my laptop on the AA.com website. Went back to my phone later to see I had 2 reservations, the one I paid for on my PC and one "on hold" from what I had started earlier (never requested the hold for 24 hour feature) with a unique/different record locator. Interestingly the "on hold" one didn't show up when I'm logged into AA.com's website. It eventually disappeared on its own a few hours later, but I was surprised how easily and unintentionally you can create a duplicate reservation request. Granted I wasn't holding the duplicate for days at a time like the Hayes case, but seems pretty bad on AA's end that you can tie up inventory like that.
Not at all the same thing, though (as you said). These bookings expire quickly on their own and are clearly an attempt on AA's part to accommodate people who lose their internet connection, etc., during the booking process. I believe UA does the same.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 2:12 am
  #100  
 
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Originally Posted by nk15 View Post
I don't think this is correct, the fare locks in at the time of booking, and then he paid it. If the OP has indeed paid for all the tickets, as he claims, and never cancelled even one, then I don't see how AA has any damages or a claim here, and they should not confiscate his miles.
Yes, he locked in a fare on a particular day that is valid for 24 hours. When he decides to be shady and dishonest and ultimately pay for the ticket well beyond the 24 hour period, the going rate on that later date may have been higher. He should not receive the benefit of paying the initial fare. If he had just outright purchased a ticket on the later date, he likely have paid a higher fare. At the end of the day, he isnít entitled to that initial fare beyond the 24 hour period.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 3:06 am
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
at no point did I ever committed any fraud by using someone else's credit card.
However, as has been pointed out upthread, that's not what AA alleged.
Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
... holding numerous reservations on aa.com with an invalid credit card.
Those are two very different things. AA security accused you of doing ABC. Your response was that you didn't do XYZ. That would make me suspicious. This is not a situation in which you want to play at semantics. "It depends upon what the meaning of the word is, is."


Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
I also offered a signed affidavit stating this and that this use of any invalid form of payment would never happen again
But if you didn't do it intentionally, how can you guarantee that it won't happen again? And if you did do it intentionally....


Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Not sure why OP starts off by denying that he ever "using someone else's credit card," when the AA Corporate Security allegation is specifically that he had engaged in "holding numerous reservations on aa.com with an invalid credit card."
As you can see, I was wondering the same thing. My feeling after reading OP's posts is that there's some dancing around the facts going on.


Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
That seems to be a simple factual question, Did OP, on multiple occasions, hold reservations using an invalid card?
I agree. Seems very straightforward to me.


Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
We used a "fly now pay later" card - I am an authorized user of the card. The issues are tied to that card - we've had situations where the card used the payment had not processed.
I'm trying to imagine how this came about. When I make a payment on either my AMEX or Citibank cards (the only credit cards I have), the payment is posted within seconds.


Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
I've already emailed them a signed and notarized affidavit....
You do understand that notarization simply ensures that you were the one who actually signed the affidavit, right? It's identity verification, nothing more.


Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
... and will use this audit as a one and only warning going forward.
You already promised to follow the rules when you enrolled in AAdvantage. Additionally, an affidavit is only relevant to things that have already occurred. An affidavit which purports to promise something for the future is illogical and meaningless.


Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
The issue has been our fly now pay later card payment has not processed ...
What bank is handling this card? As above, my payments clear immediately.


I understand that this must be very distressing to you, OP; however, after reading and rereading everything that you wrote, I am left with the feeling that there's more to the story. Possibly AA was left with the same feeling.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 3:56 am
  #102  
 
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Iím left feeling thereís more to the story as well.

The one thing I donít understand is how this is allowed to happen with an AA-branded card. When I started reading the thread I assumed it would be some obscure card (check) by a little-known issuer (not so much).

Is there a benefit to AA to allow reservations using this card to end up in a hold? I know it seems silly, but if not, why canít AA and Citi get together and close the loophole?
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Old Jul 6, 19, 4:55 am
  #103  
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Fascinating thread. I hope the OP let's us all know how this pans out.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 8:42 am
  #104  
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AA's general policy seems to be quite customer-friendly, so I am not sure why there are those supporting the use of invalid cards.

It would be simple for AA to program its system such that the use of a card with insufficient credit available would cause the reservation to cancel immediately. But, I presume that the vast majority of instances where an invalid card is used are situations where the customer has made a simple error and corrects it relatively immediately. Honoring the price at the time of the original booking seems to be good for all.

However, it appears that there are a small number of people who see this as a loophole and exploit it to effectively create long-term holds. AA has made a perfectly reasonable decision to "fire" those customers or at least to discourage them from future patronage. Bottom line is that AA is encouraging OP to walk away. It hasn't banned him, so he may purchase new tickets if he wishes.
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Old Jul 6, 19, 8:59 am
  #105  
 
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Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, I dunno. Someone paid for and utilized services using an invalid form of payment. Person gets busted, although not criminally, and the vendor is merely trying to recover their losses. I am not sure why said person would have the testicular fortitude to post seeking advice. I know there are plenty of people who write bad checks and donít pay their taxes... but to me posting about, and trying to salvage something from it is really telling to their character, or lack thereof in this case.
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