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need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

Old Jul 5, 19, 7:46 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
But OP has said here that he would use all the itineraries ... just that some didn't go through because his initial card was maxed out and he had to call back in with a different form of payment.

The poster in the other thread said he'd book it, and if he decided to use it, he'd then call.

Of course, I'm just restating what the OP has said happened.
Even if he did ultimately pay for all the itineraries, there is still the issue of taking fares out of inventory. By the date he gets around to calling in with a valid payment, he may be paying less than the fare would have been had he purchased outright at the later date.

AA is trying to send a clear message and they have to be tough to send it.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:47 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post
But OP has said here that he would use all the itineraries ... just that some didn't go through because his initial card was maxed out and he had to call back in with a different form of payment.

The poster in the other thread said he'd book it, and if he decided to use it, he'd then call.

Of course, I'm just restating what the OP has said happened.
If it was (or is) as benign as OP claims, then itís hard to believe AA would be pursuing this.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:04 pm
  #78  
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Originally Posted by boss315 View Post
my advice, after having to deal with them for the past four months: escalate to Parker's office...
Negative.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:06 pm
  #79  
 
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A frequent optimist, I always want to give the benefit of the doubt but it would seem that more often than not there are two narratives at play in these revenue protection posts.

If itís truly innocent then thatís really unfortunate but in the interest of exploiting ticketing and fare rule quirks, some can go too far.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:38 pm
  #80  
 
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OP:

For every time you had an issue with the "pay later" card; how long did it pass from time of booking to actual ticket issue after you called? 1 day? 5 days? 15 days?
did you call back the same day you got the email ? Or days later?
( I know there was no bad intention on your part, just want to clarify what AA's point of view might be)
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:38 pm
  #81  
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Why would someone with nefarious intentions cone on here and post his story?
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:43 pm
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
Thank you for the advice.
Were you aware that the credit card you were using to hold the tickets didn't have sufficient credit? Did AA only advise you of this after ticket #20 ?
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:49 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
Why would someone with nefarious intentions cone on here and post his story?
You have a lot to learn.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 8:57 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
Why would someone with nefarious intentions cone on here and post his story?
I thought this might be your first day on the internet, but your bio says 2003. Haha.

Anyway, there has to be more to the story. I can't believe someone with ExPlat status would spend years traveling like this, with each reservation seemingly a new ordeal (unless it was all leisure travel).
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Old Jul 5, 19, 9:00 pm
  #85  
 
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I guess I am confused.

You use a card that had expired. Did *that* fact result in a loss to AA or a benefit to you?

Could you have simply used a valid card, in precisely the same way, and had the same outcome? (ie AA still gets paid, you get no benefit)
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Old Jul 5, 19, 10:10 pm
  #86  
 
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Iím happy you got one over on AA for a while. Itís good to see a little guy stick it to the big 3 every so often. They have no problem screwing us over with fees, horribly uncomfortable cabins and devaluations.

Now theyíve caught you and will try to hurt you. Your only power here is walking away and not flying AA ever again, then they really canít do anything to you. You had 3 good years screwing them over. Give em the middle finger salute on the way out and move your biz elsewhere.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 10:21 pm
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by metallo View Post
When I read these threads, I do wonder why, at times, AA doesn't make more of an effort to curtail the behavior earlier on... it would surely prevent misunderstandings after the fact. The Hayes case comes to mind as an example of that... I don't remember all the details, but I believe he basically had a ton of "virtual record locators" that had automatically held seats after he made dummy bookings and selected seats but never completed the reservations. AA must have simply thought his behavior was clearly fraudulent after seeing the sheer number of bookings he made, because he must have realized by then what he was doing.
Found out the other morning this is incredibly easy to do. I started a reservation on my phone app, was distracted after selecting a seat but before paying, then eventually made the reservation via my laptop on the AA.com website. Went back to my phone later to see I had 2 reservations, the one I paid for on my PC and one "on hold" from what I had started earlier (never requested the hold for 24 hour feature) with a unique/different record locator. Interestingly the "on hold" one didn't show up when I'm logged into AA.com's website. It eventually disappeared on its own a few hours later, but I was surprised how easily and unintentionally you can create a duplicate reservation request. Granted I wasn't holding the duplicate for days at a time like the Hayes case, but seems pretty bad on AA's end that you can tie up inventory like that.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 10:35 pm
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer View Post
Found out the other morning this is incredibly easy to do. I started a reservation on my phone app, was distracted after selecting a seat but before paying, then eventually made the reservation via my laptop on the AA.com website. Went back to my phone later to see I had 2 reservations, the one I paid for on my PC and one "on hold" from what I had started earlier (never requested the hold for 24 hour feature) with a unique/different record locator. Interestingly the "on hold" one didn't show up when I'm logged into AA.com's website. It eventually disappeared on its own a few hours later, but I was surprised how easily and unintentionally you can create a duplicate reservation request. Granted I wasn't holding the duplicate for days at a time like the Hayes case, but seems pretty bad on AA's end that you can tie up inventory like that.
Exactly. I've had it happen myself, noticed it, and have said to myself, gosh I better make sure I really cancel this thing so they know I'm not trying to defraud them lol. You can go to your reservation list and hit "remove," and I've noticed the inventory literally change immediately after doing so. Scary that their IT allows this.

I suspect they must really just be going after the most egregious examples, though. I looked at Hayes again, and AA contended he had a "flurry of activity" that included "28 bookings using fictitious names, while omitting his AAdvantage account number... he created a fictitious 'placeholder' name, and entered information regarding the type of booking, date of birth, gender, and a contact telephone number, while avoiding the optional frequent flyer number. American contends that this process created passenger name records which placed 45 upgraded seats out of inventory for a total of 41 hours in the few days before the flight's departure."

Btw, just down the page from that...
"American further asserts that American's website architecture is not at fault, because it provides two ways for a passenger to easily access a flight's dynamic seatmap without going through a laborious, and fictitious, booking process."

So, that will be AA's claim... our website isn't at fault. The person booking did something abnormal and unreasonable... 45 upgraded seats in 41 hours? You bet that raises red flags.

I'd be worried myself because I frequently book last minute tickets and often cancel some of those, so reading some of these stories you'd say, gosh I hope I'm not in their crosshairs someday, but when you truly look at who they hunt down, it seems to be the truly biggest, most egregious offenders.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 10:54 pm
  #89  
 
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The website is indeed sometimes quite annoying. If you submit a payment and it errors out to the ďtechnical faultĒ page, there is no way you can get the PNR and start that payment again.

If this ghost reservation pulls away the last available seat in an inventory, starting a new search means a higher price, and it may be hours before AA catches that mistake and cancel the ghost PNR (thus releasing the inventory back again)
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Old Jul 5, 19, 10:59 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by shd9 View Post
The website is indeed sometimes quite annoying. If you submit a payment and it errors out to the ďtechnical faultĒ page, there is no way you can get the PNR and start that payment again.

If this ghost reservation pulls away the last available seat in an inventory, starting a new search means a higher price, and it may be hours before AA catches that mistake and cancel the ghost PNR (thus releasing the inventory back again)
Frankly, I believe Hayes got shafted. Reading it again, he very well could have been just a guy who was really excited about his trip to Europe, so he did some weird things on the website, and got burned for behaving abnormally.

The OP in this scenario, though, I can't really say... it really depends on whether he had knowledge that the bookings were fraudulent (that proper payment had not been made by the required time). It could theoretically be a very extreme mistake. But you'd have to assume that the extreme is true.
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