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need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

need advice - notification from AA Corporate Security

Old Jul 5, 19, 5:48 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
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Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post
wait and pray that someone will have some level of mercy and my Exec Plat status and spend will help.
None of that will help because in their view, you have partially acquired the status under fraud/wilful deceit and your spend is considered questionable.
Or let me paraphrase this way, your being investigated to the point of being kicked out of the program and possibly sued.

If you feel strongly that you are innocent, I think its worthwhile to have an attorney in mind or get some legal advice.
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Last edited by global happy traveller; Jul 5, 19 at 5:56 pm
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Old Jul 5, 19, 5:49 pm
  #62  
 
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I'm confused by this whole thread, but was the OP tying up award availability that others could not access?
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Old Jul 5, 19, 5:51 pm
  #63  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Why on earth would you continue to use a credit card that repeatedly was declined?

To me it would not be worth the hassle. Unless of course my intent was to game the system.

"Can't find my checkbook - hope you don't mind I pay you in change."
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Old Jul 5, 19, 5:56 pm
  #64  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
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The only time I got an eTDS message was when an agent applied a SWU improperly (used one to waitlist both outgoing and incoming international sectors - that would have been a great!). I resolved it immediately - I can't imagine getting one for every trip and not trying to figure out what was going on.

If you show the right amount of contrition, maybe they'll let you keep your AA account with 0 miles and start fresh, but I doubt you'll ever get anything back.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 6:10 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by iadisgreat View Post
The only time I got an eTDS message was when an agent applied a SWU improperly (used one to waitlist both outgoing and incoming international sectors - that would have been a great!). I resolved it immediately - I can't imagine getting one for every trip and not trying to figure out what was going on.

If you show the right amount of contrition, maybe they'll let you keep your AA account with 0 miles and start fresh, but I doubt you'll ever get anything back.
Thank you for the advice.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 6:13 pm
  #66  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
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my advice, after having to deal with them for the past four months: escalate to Parker's office. Be very detailed and include all supporting documentation. The corporate security people NEVER respond to emails, NEVER give you any phone numbers or other contact information.....they refuse to engage in any communication whatsoever. They do not care about honesty and explanations, even with proof and documentation. Even though exonerated in the end, I told them to take a leap and went to AS and DL, who were happy to get my $40K of business each year. Interesting that AA has done nothing to try to get me back.....so sad to see AA go they way of UA!
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Old Jul 5, 19, 6:41 pm
  #67  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Originally Posted by Herrick View Post
I’m curious how AA corporate security would definitively tie a FT user name to a specific individual though. This can’t be the only case of its kind currently under investigation.
Because he posted the exact letter from AA that has specific references to his alleged misuse (("Since May 2016").
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Old Jul 5, 19, 6:49 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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The people looking into these are auditors, attorneys, risk management professionals and investigators (usually w law enforcement or forensic backgrounds). They are not customer service people, hence the engagement strategy has to be different.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:00 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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The fly now pay later plan sounds awesome I can't believe people down talking it. Anyone here ever hear of credit card arbitrage? From what I'm reading there's no fee here. Anyway as to the OP this seems harsh. If they viewed this as a problem why not communicate that first and say hey stop doing this or we'll pull your miles. Not very good customer service here and I'll think twice about AA in the future because of it not that anyone cares lol.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:04 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by Grmaht View Post

"it has been brought to the attention of American Airlines’ corporate security department that you have been holding numerous reservations on aa.com with an invalid credit card. Our records indicate this act has been performed since May 2016. Holding duplicate or illogical reservations is not a benefit granted by American Airlines"
This goes back over three years of “holding duplicate or illogical reservations” and clearly the auditing that is ongoing is to determine how much money OP owes AA, not weather OP is guilty of the alleged violations. OP is history with AA.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:18 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by maniac78 View Post
Anyway as to the OP this seems harsh. If they viewed this as a problem why not communicate that first and say hey stop doing this or we'll pull your miles. Not very good customer service here and I'll think twice about AA in the future because of it not that anyone cares lol.
When I read these threads, I do wonder why, at times, AA doesn't make more of an effort to curtail the behavior earlier on... it would surely prevent misunderstandings after the fact. The Hayes case comes to mind as an example of that... I don't remember all the details, but I believe he basically had a ton of "virtual record locators" that had automatically held seats after he made dummy bookings and selected seats but never completed the reservations. AA must have simply thought his behavior was clearly fraudulent after seeing the sheer number of bookings he made, because he must have realized by then what he was doing.

I don't know enough about the fly now/pay later plan to know how obvious it would/should have been to the OP in this thread the potential harm he was causing AA here, but I suspect, as above, that it's related to the number of times the behavior occurred (which is undoubtedly how it landed on their radar in the first place).

However, had AA noticed the issue after a few reservations and informed OP, he would have been on notice from that point forward that they felt the behavior was not considered kosher. If the behavior were then subsequently repeated, the fair disposition would be obvious... terminate the account.

On the other hand, the rationale provided for AA's behavior here in the past is that, by the time it gets to the account locking stage, they're already 99% certain that there has been intentional wrongdoing. In other words, there are probably many instances where AA isn't sure whether something is intentional, and they sit on those accounts and investigate further before making what may otherwise look like a rash decision. I suppose my question would be... instead of "sitting" on the accounts when they have the initial information, why let the behavior continue and then take the seemingly nuclear option of locking someone's account?
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:19 pm
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by maniac78 View Post
The fly now pay later plan sounds awesome I can't believe people down talking it. Anyone here ever hear of credit card arbitrage? From what I'm reading there's no fee here. Anyway as to the OP this seems harsh. If they viewed this as a problem why not communicate that first and say hey stop doing this or we'll pull your miles. Not very good customer service here and I'll think twice about AA in the future because of it not that anyone cares lol.
If by credit card arbitrage you mean buy with points earning credit card and paying it off in full monthly, yes -- many of us have heard of that. On the other hand, the cost of interest will overwhelm any value from points.

Originally Posted by AA100k View Post


This goes back over three years of “holding duplicate or illogical reservations” and clearly the auditing that is ongoing is to determine how much money OP owes AA, not weather OP is guilty of the alleged violations. OP is history with AA.
OP says he paid for every ticket he he purchased initially with the maxed out "card(s)." That would be different than the other poster who bought $68,000 in tickets with an invalid credit card but never paid for the tickets. If that's the case, OP wouldn't owe AA anything.

Of course, that's a different question than whether corporate security views it as a violation of the T&C.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:30 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by C17PSGR View Post



OP says he paid for every ticket he he purchased initially with the maxed out "card(s)." That would be different than the other poster who bought $68,000 in tickets with an invalid credit card but never paid for the tickets. If that's the case, OP wouldn't owe AA anything.
But the language in AA’s notification says “duplicate or illogical reservations” - hard to believe OP paid for (multiple) duplicate and/or illogical reservations. Perhaps he eventually paid for one of the duplicate reservations leaving the other(s) not purchased. Agree that if OP never reserved (held on the bogus card) duplicates and paid for every reservation then AA has no money claim.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:32 pm
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by Finkface View Post
If this happened ‘half a dozen to 10 times’, logic would dictate that after the first couple of times of the card being rejected, you would learn to check for sufficient credit before you tried to use the card. 6, 8, 10 or 12 times is not a mistake. It looks like a deliberate attempt to speculatively hold bookings with a card you know will not process to either buy yourself some time to decide if you really want the flight (in which case you would call in with a valid card) or not (in which case you would let the booking lapse for non-payment). Again, exactly what they are accusing you of doing.
This, seems like the OP was putting the reservations in ticketing limbo for long amounts of time. If he decided he would use an itinerary, he'd call with a valid form of payment, otherwise, he would cancel the reservations after a "long time." Either way, trying to game he system and put tickets on hold indefinitely and messing up revenue management.
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Old Jul 5, 19, 7:39 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by AA100k View Post


But the language in AA’s notification says “duplicate or illogical reservations” - hard to believe OP paid for (multiple) duplicate and/or illogical reservations. Perhaps he eventually paid for one of the duplicate reservations leaving the other(s) not purchased. Agree that if OP never reserved (held on the bogus card) duplicates and paid for every reservation then AA has no money claim.
Originally Posted by FAA1996 View Post
This, seems like the OP was putting the reservations in ticketing limbo for long amounts of time. If he decided he would use an itinerary, he'd call with a valid form of payment, otherwise, he would cancel the reservations after a "long time." Either way, trying to game he system and put tickets on hold indefinitely and messing up revenue management.
But OP has said here that he would use all the itineraries ... just that some didn't go through because his initial card was maxed out and he had to call back in with a different form of payment.

The poster in the other thread said he'd book it, and if he decided to use it, he'd then call.

Of course, I'm just restating what the OP has said happened.
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