AMS Business Flight Canceled - Questions

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Old Jun 23, 19, 7:54 am
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AMS Business Flight Canceled - Questions

My Business/First SAAver award flight from AMS-PHL-DCA-home was canceled this morning.

Was rebooked for tomorrow AMS-LHR-PHL-home, with LHR-PHL in Business.

The AMS-LHR portion is in Economy and the final leg from PHL-home is in Main Cabin Extra. Am I able to be put on a list if the Business/First seats open? Is there any mileage compensation for losing First on one domestic segment? (Airport staff was extremely busy and AA repeatedly hung up calls, saying to call back later).

I checked in online already but do not yet have boarding passes in hand and must present my passport to BA staff. When I wait to do this, am I still able to stand in the Priority Lane equivalent for BA, even though AA booked me in an Economy seat for this first flight?

I have used the lounge in the past for a similar flight (BA economy, but LHR-USA portion in AA Business) and believe I can still access the lounge in AMS, correct? I would have been able to go this morning had my AMS-PHL flight not been canceled and the AA rep told me Id have access, but wanted to hear from the experts here.

THANKS!
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Old Jun 23, 19, 8:03 am
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If you wish to fly in international J / domestic F as you were booked, you are free to ask AA to rebook you for the next available service which has that available. That may be 1-2 extra days in AMS, but it is your choice. Hopefully this will not happen again, but if it does, you should have the reroute you wish researched and in hand for the agent.

Alternatively, you are due a refund of the mileage difference for the ticket booked and the ticket flown. As you have not provided the full routing, e.g. "home" rather than a specific airport, it is hard to figure out. Chances are that there will not be any mileage difference.

There is an argument that you are due EC 261/2004 reimbursement for the two downgraded segments. That would amount to 75% of the segment base fare for the segment in question. Again, that might be 0 or very little.

Depending on the reason for the cancellation, you may be due EUR 600 in cancellation compensation.

If you provide your entire routing both before and after as well as the reason for the cancellation, there will be better information available.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 8:36 am
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Originally Posted by miles4sheli View Post
My Business/First SAAver award flight from AMS-PHL-DCA-home was canceled this morning.

Was rebooked for tomorrow AMS-LHR-PHL-home, with LHR-PHL in Business.

The AMS-LHR portion is in Economy and the final leg from PHL-home is in Main Cabin Extra. Am I able to be put on a list if the Business/First seats open? Is there any mileage compensation for losing First on one domestic segment? (Airport staff was extremely busy and AA repeatedly hung up calls, saying to call back later).

I checked in online already but do not yet have boarding passes in hand and must present my passport to BA staff. When I wait to do this, am I still able to stand in the Priority Lane equivalent for BA, even though AA booked me in an Economy seat for this first flight?

I have used the lounge in the past for a similar flight (BA economy, but LHR-USA portion in AA Business) and believe I can still access the lounge in AMS, correct? I would have been able to go this morning had my AMS-PHL flight not been canceled and the AA rep told me Id have access, but wanted to hear from the experts here.

THANKS!
was it due to wx or mx?

If the latter demand AA puts you on a BA J flight--plenty of those open!

MCE is economy --with a few more inches of leg room and a free budweiser.

If AA can't accommodate you on BA then they owe you the mileage difference.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 8:58 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
If you wish to fly in international J / domestic F as you were booked, you are free to ask AA to rebook you for the next available service which has that available.
Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
...demand AA puts you on a BA J flight--plenty of those open!
People: read the post. OP has been rebooked in J LHR-PHL. So the downgrade issues here are on AMS-LHR - a flight of around 1 hour or less in pointless BA intra-Europe J; and on PHL-"home" - for which it would be nice to know what airport that is (and OP has apparently been rebooked nonstop PHL-home, rather than via DCA, so may have traded a domestic F seat for a faster trip in MCE).

Originally Posted by miles4sheli View Post
My Business/First SAAver award flight from AMS-PHL-DCA-home was canceled this morning.

Was rebooked for tomorrow AMS-LHR-PHL-home, with LHR-PHL in Business.
Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
was it due to wx or mx?
This to me seem like the important question. EC261 is potentially in play here - but need to know more about the reasons for the cancellation. OP also needs to make sure AA followed duty of care obligations under EC261.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by miles4sheli View Post
My Business/First SAAver award flight from AMS-PHL-DCA-home was canceled this morning.

Was rebooked for tomorrow AMS-LHR-PHL-home, with LHR-PHL in Business.

The AMS-LHR portion is in Economy and the final leg from PHL-home is in Main Cabin Extra. Am I able to be put on a list if the Business/First seats open? Is there any mileage compensation for losing First on one domestic segment? (Airport staff was extremely busy and AA repeatedly hung up calls, saying to call back later).

I checked in online already but do not yet have boarding passes in hand and must present my passport to BA staff. When I wait to do this, am I still able to stand in the Priority Lane equivalent for BA, even though AA booked me in an Economy seat for this first flight?

I have used the lounge in the past for a similar flight (BA economy, but LHR-USA portion in AA Business) and believe I can still access the lounge in AMS, correct? I would have been able to go this morning had my AMS-PHL flight not been canceled and the AA rep told me Id have access, but wanted to hear from the experts here.

THANKS!
OP- in case youre not familiar with BA, its worth knowing that business on the AMS-LHR flight is Club Europe, which is identical to economy seating except that the middle seat is blocked and you get a free meal/drink. It is not much of a step up on such a short flight, so depending on your options it may not be worth the hassle of trying to find a flight with seating in CE. That said, I do think having lounge access in AMS is an issue - BA likely wont let you in unless youre booked in CE out of AMS (unless youre AA plat or above, in which case you and a guest can get in regardless of cabin).
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Old Jun 23, 19, 9:54 am
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Originally Posted by miles4sheli View Post
I can still access the lounge in AMS, correct?
Yes, the policy says:
Connecting between oneworld marketed and operated flights:
  • First and Business Class customers connecting on the same day of travel, or before 6am the following day, can access the lounge when travelling between an international long haul (a oneworld international long haul flight is defined as an international flight marketed and operated by any oneworld carrier with a scheduled flight time longer than 5 hours) and an international short haul or domestic flight (and vice-versa).
  • Lounge access will be determined on the international long haul ticketed flight (either First of Business Class) regardless of the ticketed class of travel on the international short haul or domestic flight.
  • You must be prepared to show your boarding pass or itinerary showing travel in First or Business class on the international long haul flight, in order to access the lounge before your international short haul or domestic flight.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 9:58 am
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You should probably get an EC261 lawyer. Despite the AMS-LHR / Club Europe designation, it is still a downgrade in class
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Old Jun 23, 19, 10:06 am
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Originally Posted by AZbba View Post
You should probably get an EC261 lawyer. Despite the AMS-LHR / Club Europe designation, it is still a downgrade in class
A lawyer?

You don't need a lawyer to make a simple EU261 claim. They would likely charge you more than you would get back!

OP assuming your LHR-PHL flight tomorrow is on AA then I'd talk to the AA staff when you get to LHR T3 (there is an AA desk in flight connections which you will see after you get off the bus from T5) about your PHL-DCA flight and see what they can do re getting you back in F.
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Last edited by UKtravelbear; Jun 23, 19 at 10:16 am
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Old Jun 23, 19, 11:03 am
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There is an argument that you are due EC 261/2004 reimbursement for the two downgraded segments. That would amount to 75% of the segment base fare for the segment in question.
Unless I have missed something.
Where does it say anything about a "segment base fare".
Do you really think that airlines can avoid a EC261/2004 downgrade refund simply by hiding ticket costs in some kind of fees?
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Old Jun 23, 19, 11:11 am
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the reimbursement for a downgrade under EY261 is now based on the fare for the segment fowngraded (rather than the previous 'ticket price') was result of an EU court case that excluded taxes and airport fees from the calculation (as in general these are the same no matter what cabin you are in). IIRC carrier fees / surcharges were also excluded.

And yes they can (and do) hide part of the ticket cost by increasing the 'carrier surcharge' which isn't part of the base fare but is part of the ticket cost.

In this case the downgrade was on two short segments (and I'd doubt the downgrade on the intra US leg comes under EU261) t and so the reimbursement would be very small.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 11:16 am
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I see now the OP was re-accommodated in J. I wouldn't really care about the quick hop over the channel as European C is really economy with a center seat blocked.

Where's home? PHL-home doesn't do us much good. If it's PHL-EWR yeah I wouldn't care less but if it's PHL-LAX I'd be pretty chapped and would make a stink about it.
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Old Jun 23, 19, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
Unless I have missed something.
Where does it say anything about a "segment base fare".
Do you really think that airlines can avoid a EC261/2004 downgrade refund simply by hiding ticket costs in some kind of fees?
The passenger is only entitled to reimbursement of fare under EC261for the part of the journey downgraded. for AMS-LHR and then PHL-'home' being downgraded, it will be 75% of the percentage of distance downgraded

Unless PHL-'home' is a long flight, the reimbursement will not be very much

AMS-LHR-PHL is 3,775 mi - AMS-LHR is 231 miles. If journey was just to PHL the refund due would be 75% * (231/3775) * fare paid ( approx 4.6% of amount spent ) .

If PHL-'home' is 500 miles , then it would be 75% * 731/4275 * fare paid = approx 13%
If PHL-'home' is 1000 miles , then it would be 75% * 1231/4775 * fare paid = approx 19%

Might do just as well asking customer service for some compensation for the downgrade

Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
the reimbursement for a downgrade under EY261 is now based on the fare for the segment fowngraded (rather than the previous 'ticket price') was result of an EU court case that excluded taxes and airport fees from the calculation (as in general these are the same no matter what cabin you are in). IIRC carrier fees / surcharges were also excluded.

And yes they can (and do) hide part of the ticket cost by increasing the 'carrier surcharge' which isn't part of the base fare but is part of the ticket cost.

In this case the downgrade was on two short segments (and I'd doubt the downgrade on the intra US leg comes under EU261) t and so the reimbursement would be very small.
There are no surcharges on AA award tickets that are not for travel on BA , so there wouldn't be any surcharges , just a few taxes ( which are not expensive at all out of AMS ) - percentage of distance has been used by airlines including AA to work out downgrade reimbursement on multi sector one way journeys
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Old Jun 23, 19, 11:30 am
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If your final destination is DC, why not ask them to just put you on BA, AMS-LHR-IAD (or BWI)? Might as well save yourself some extra time/frustration.
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