Deterioration of treatment of elites during irregular operations?
#31
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
I'll agree here. We no longer book with a layover of less than 1.5 hours if we have to connect. We book almost exclusively direct flights, and utilize trip insurance credit card coverage benefits on ALL trips. Most benefits kick in after 3 hours delay. I'd rather spend extra time in the lounge than miss a tight connection.
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
Programs: Lifetime Executive Diamond Platinum VIP with Braniff, Eastern, Midway, National & Pan Am
Posts: 17,308
A couple of suggestions as to how AA could in principle improve their recovery from irregular operation situations:
1) STOP SELLING NEW TICKETS when they have a backlog of stranded passengers. One could imagine that it would be their highest priority to get their stranded passengers with unbooked tickets to their destinations. Right now, the only way for a passenger with an existing but unbooked ticket to get a seat on a new flight is for that seat to be opened up for sale to any new customer. I would suggest that AA could create a new fare class which is open for rebookings but not for sale at any price, and this fare class would be populated during irregular operations.
2) Increase their overbooking margins during irregular operations. It is my observation that during IRROPS, many more passengers than usual fail to show up for their booked ticket.
1) STOP SELLING NEW TICKETS when they have a backlog of stranded passengers. One could imagine that it would be their highest priority to get their stranded passengers with unbooked tickets to their destinations. Right now, the only way for a passenger with an existing but unbooked ticket to get a seat on a new flight is for that seat to be opened up for sale to any new customer. I would suggest that AA could create a new fare class which is open for rebookings but not for sale at any price, and this fare class would be populated during irregular operations.
2) Increase their overbooking margins during irregular operations. It is my observation that during IRROPS, many more passengers than usual fail to show up for their booked ticket.
Unless things have changed, one of the very first things AA does when weather at a station looks like it's going to be really bad is to run a "change level" program that brings authorization levels down to cabin capacity (no overbooking) on every flight to and from that station, often for the day after the forecast weather event too.
So, while that limits your options to get confirmed on an alternate flight, you can be one of many revenue standbys cleared at the gate when all those no-shows no show.
#33
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 459
with the high loads, no guarantee youll be on the flight after, or a flight that day..
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 382
Those two items are in conflict with each other. Are you asking for more overbooking? Or less?
Unless things have changed, one of the very first things AA does when weather at a station looks like it's going to be really bad is to run a "change level" program that brings authorization levels down to cabin capacity (no overbooking) on every flight to and from that station, often for the day after the forecast weather event too.
So, while that limits your options to get confirmed on an alternate flight, you can be one of many revenue standbys cleared at the gate when all those no-shows no show.
Unless things have changed, one of the very first things AA does when weather at a station looks like it's going to be really bad is to run a "change level" program that brings authorization levels down to cabin capacity (no overbooking) on every flight to and from that station, often for the day after the forecast weather event too.
So, while that limits your options to get confirmed on an alternate flight, you can be one of many revenue standbys cleared at the gate when all those no-shows no show.
The problem with AA's current policy, which you describe above, is that it leads to a nice combination of of planes departing with empty seats and and travelers stranded for longer than they need to. I saw exactly this result this week at DCA, as I described in the OP. By allowing overbooking of existing tickets but not selling new ones, they would clear the backlog as quickly as possible, which in my mind would be an estimable goal. The current policy maximizes their revenue flow (surprise!) while spreading the backlog over the longest possible period of time, thus maximizing AA ticket sales at the expense of maximizing delays for stranded passengers, including AAdvantage elites. I am suggesting that they would keep customers more effectively in the long term by adopting a more customer (and especially elite) friendly policy at the expense of short term revenue. I'm not holding my breath waiting for this to happen...
saunders111
.
#35
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,206
I guess I will share my recent IRROPS experience here. I was flying BUR > PHX > JFK on 17 June. BUR > PHX went off without a hitch, but the WiFi was down. Of course, when I landed at PHX, my phone lit up like a Christmas tree with news that my flight was cancelled due to Mx. There was Wx at JFK and there may have also been a crew time out, but I was aced out as soon as I landed, and was re-accommodated the following morning when they wanted me to fly PHX > LAX > JFK. I balked at that idea for obvious reasons. The Customer Service desk was swamped in the PHX A concourse, so I went to B concourse figuring it would be less crowded. It was, but there was only one agent manning the desk. There were calls to the Elite Services desk, and they were just as useless as the Customer Services desk. I waited nearly two hours before they added three more agents; however, I learned half-way through that AA now proactively contacts affected pax by E-mail with hotel and food vouchers. I could've saved two hours of waiting if they had made mention of this in the app. Anyway, by the time I figured that out, all of the "free hotels" at decent PHX properties were taken, so I was left with scrum. The restaurants had shuttered and my vouchers were effectively worthless. Thankfully, I had travellers insurance. I booked myself a night at the Aloft PHX for $83+tax, got myself a Pizza Hut "pizza" for $19 a/i (which I gave away the majority of to the front desk) and I went to sleep at midnight. The following morning, I was still unsatisfied with my routing and a funeral I was to attend was pushed back by a day to accommodate my lateness. I called into the Elite Services desk again and offered the routing PHX > YVR > JFK with the latter leg being operated by Cathay Pacific. AA really didn't want to pay for that ticket and suddenly found availability on the noon PHX > JFK aboard AA. Not only that, they gave me an OPUP to F. I got double EQM as a result, but that no longer makes a difference thanks to the many programme changes (as well as the fact that I was at the very beginning of a PLT challenge). I got back home at 20h instead of midnight thanks to this change and attended my very delayed funeral the following afternoon. Today, I saw they deposited 10k miles as well. AA has systems that should make IRROPS easier, but they need to work on advertising these systems within their app, so affected pax can leave the airport faster.
#36
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,208
#37
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,303
...was re-accommodated the following morning when they wanted me to fly PHX > LAX > JFK. I balked at that idea for obvious reasons... I called into the Elite Services desk again and offered the routing PHX > YVR > JFK with the latter leg being operated by Cathay Pacific. AA really didn't want to pay for that ticket and suddenly found availability on the noon PHX > JFK aboard AA. Not only that, they gave me an OPUP to F. .
it's good that you were able to get on the JFK non-stop from Phoenix eventually.
#38
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,206
I can't imagine in a million years that AA would agree to switch you from PHX-LAX-JFK...to an international connection on partner Cathay PHX-YVR-JFK. How would that have been faster than going back to LAX the way they wanted you to go LAX to JFK? what did you tell AA why you didn't want to go to do the almost hourly LAX to JFK flight and preferred to fly clear to vancouver first?
it's good that you were able to get on the JFK non-stop from Phoenix eventually.
it's good that you were able to get on the JFK non-stop from Phoenix eventually.
It wouldnt have been faster at all, but going back to LAX to sit several hours for an almost red-eye was not something that I wanted to do having already flown from BUR. The plane was apparently Mx before I even left for PHX, but the app didnt push that notification until a few minutes after I left. If they had pushed the notification sooner, then I wouldnt have flown to PHX at all.
As for flying to YVR, PHX was an operational nightmare and people were being put on flights for Wednesday and Thursday. If I had a choice of flying someone that was reliably late or American Airlines, then I would go with the carrier that was reliably late. YVR is also home now, so I couldve popped in, went to Richmond for dinner, popped back to the airport and left vs. sitting for hours on end at PHX/LAX.
As for my eventual replacement PHX > JFK flight, it wasnt an option that was available to me the previous day. PHX > LAX > JFK was only offered.
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
There is a vast difference between AA declining to rebook on a circuitous route on another carrier when there is a reasonable reroute available even if it is not particularly the one you would choose AND AA simply refusing to rebook on another carrier at all.
#40
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MSP/BUF/BNA/LFT
Programs: AA Plat, Priority Club Gold, Choice Privileges Gold
Posts: 1,223
All fair questions.
It wouldnt have been faster at all, but going back to LAX to sit several hours for an almost red-eye was not something that I wanted to do having already flown from BUR. The plane was apparently Mx before I even left for PHX, but the app didnt push that notification until a few minutes after I left. If they had pushed the notification sooner, then I wouldnt have flown to PHX at all.
As for flying to YVR, PHX was an operational nightmare and people were being put on flights for Wednesday and Thursday. If I had a choice of flying someone that was reliably late or American Airlines, then I would go with the carrier that was reliably late. YVR is also home now, so I couldve popped in, went to Richmond for dinner, popped back to the airport and left vs. sitting for hours on end at PHX/LAX.
As for my eventual replacement PHX > JFK flight, it wasnt an option that was available to me the previous day. PHX > LAX > JFK was only offered.
#41
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,206
I offered to find my own way to YVR (AC) just so I didnt have to deal with AA anymore. Im a frequent guest on CX because there are few non-stops between YVR and JFK. It was a needlessly frustrating experience. Ill give credit where due though. The hotel/food voucher scheme that they have is a great use of IT. Forward thinking from an airline that has copied everyone else in the race to the bottom. They just need to advertise it in-app, so that pax know what to expect. It would make FT threads like this a thing of the past.
#42
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texas
Programs: Hyatt Glob (Barely); Marriott Plat Life; AA Up and Down Now Plat; Hilton, UA, BA, HA Peasant
Posts: 2,662
It's Happening Again
Another Sunday another stormy day in DFW. Not "locally" yet-but small cell went by close enough to get an Airport Weather Warning. So presume ramp closure for lightning. Lots of weather farther north to go around. Lots of crews will be timing out. (Preemptively, yeah, it's sunny out my window. But the really weird weather year in DFW continues).
#43
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,939
Another Sunday another stormy day in DFW. Not "locally" yet-but small cell went by close enough to get an Airport Weather Warning. So presume ramp closure for lightning. Lots of weather farther north to go around. Lots of crews will be timing out. (Preemptively, yeah, it's sunny out my window. But the really weird weather year in DFW continues).
#44
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,206
Another Sunday another stormy day in DFW. Not "locally" yet-but small cell went by close enough to get an Airport Weather Warning. So presume ramp closure for lightning. Lots of weather farther north to go around. Lots of crews will be timing out. (Preemptively, yeah, it's sunny out my window. But the really weird weather year in DFW continues).