Weird AA Delay Today: LAS-JFK
#16
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Truth in this case, is stranger than fiction. The tangent speculation is entertaining, at least to me.
#17
Join Date: Dec 2003
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There was a thread here the other day about a 321 with a fuel tank that was inoperative that made a fuel stop in STL on BOS-LAX instead of cancelling the flight. That plane was N990AU operating AA167 on June 11, so not the same plane, but perhaps something similar?
Even the 2001-build former US A321s can do longer flights such as PHL-SFO (2,521 miles) westbound without much trouble even with winter jet streams. US waited to get the A321-200 with that range, rather than start out with the shorter range -100, so they could replace 757s on transcons. In spite of the info in Sabre and what the captain said, I have to think this was maintenance related. If it was a fuel tank out of service, the captain may not have wanted to announce that. But I have never, ever had a fuel stop eastbound from the West Coast on an A321.
Even the 2001-build former US A321s can do longer flights such as PHL-SFO (2,521 miles) westbound without much trouble even with winter jet streams. US waited to get the A321-200 with that range, rather than start out with the shorter range -100, so they could replace 757s on transcons. In spite of the info in Sabre and what the captain said, I have to think this was maintenance related. If it was a fuel tank out of service, the captain may not have wanted to announce that. But I have never, ever had a fuel stop eastbound from the West Coast on an A321.
#19
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Maybe a corporate suitor was trying to better-mask their trip to see the Oracle of OMA?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1SE0SO
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1SE0SO
#21
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Come on, people. DO you think AA would make a fuel stop if there was any choice not to? The cost of the fuel stop in fuel, crew time and potential missed connections on the other end is huge. How hot was it in Vegas yesterday? That also hurts performance.
#22
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the gas required "to fly at the altitudes required to keep the flight smooth"
that the plane was full.
#23
formerly jackvogt
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I mean come on...it's clearly a conspiracy. AA is trying to make everyone's life a living nightmare. I am by no means an AA fan, but they can't seem to do anything right in some people's eyes. If they IDB 30 passengers, they risk making the news, if they have a fuel emergency because they try to make it the whole way, people get mad, BUT if they plan ahead, choose a location for a fuel stop, refuel and get everyone where they need to be, they still can't do anything right!! I will never understand.
#24
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This reminds me of a time I was on ANA JFK-NRT and the aircraft had to do a go around. The captain came on and told us this was due to being a "little heavy" for landing. Right... he was heavy for landing after burning fuel for 14 hours. No he had to do a go around because he screwed up the approach. (There's nothing even wrong with that!)
#25
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As another poster said, it's not just a matter of distance. Takeoff performance also takes into account temperature, altitude, and weight. So because of the temperature yesterday and a lot of weight, the aircraft was too hot and heavy to go with a full load of fuel. So the pilot and dispatch decided to go with a full load of passengers and less fuel which required a stop somewhere.
#26
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Travel Safety/Security & Texas, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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This has been going on for years with the US A321's. Typically more often in the winter, but occasionally other times of year. There was a wicked storm moving through the midwest yesterday, so perhaps the aircraft had to take an alternate routing, causing more fuel.
Nothing new though, ever since US had the A321's with only 16F seats (about 2009 or so) this seems to occasionally happen.
Nothing new though, ever since US had the A321's with only 16F seats (about 2009 or so) this seems to occasionally happen.
#27
Join Date: Apr 2017
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As mentioned up thread, AA696 was operated by N539UW; an A321-200 built in 2009. The current configuration is C16 Y171.
B6 748 was operated by N989JT; an A321-200 built in 2017. The current configuration is C16 Y143.
The AA plane has the capacity to carry 28 additional passengers. If both planes were full, one would expect the AA bird to have less range than the B6 bird. Clearly, this route is a stretch for the AA config of this plane in certain conditions. In the event of adverse conditions, this necessitates a fuel stop. Thus the AA captain's comment about having to offload 30 pax to make the flight without a stop, sounds entirely reasonable to me.
B6 748 was operated by N989JT; an A321-200 built in 2017. The current configuration is C16 Y143.
The AA plane has the capacity to carry 28 additional passengers. If both planes were full, one would expect the AA bird to have less range than the B6 bird. Clearly, this route is a stretch for the AA config of this plane in certain conditions. In the event of adverse conditions, this necessitates a fuel stop. Thus the AA captain's comment about having to offload 30 pax to make the flight without a stop, sounds entirely reasonable to me.
#28
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Are you saying that the AA flight crew is deliberately lying to the passengers? I trust the flight crew's explanation, as they have to safely operate the flight. Perhaps you would rather play armchair quarterback here and question their judgement.
#29
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,511
The fact that 777's were landing and the "weather was fine" has nothing to do with fuel planning. If the cloud ceiling is forecast to be below 2000 feet above the field, or visibility less than 3 miles, alternate fuel is required. Add the fact they are probably metering arrivals into JFK, because they always do, and a runway is closed, they add fuel on top of that. All of the reasons given by the OP are totally plausible. No conspiracy.
Of course it's possible to be too heavy after a 14 hour flight. Fuel burn calculations are done to a T and they probably took off at the maximum possible weight in order to land at maximum landing weight in JFK. But since the flight is 14 hours long, it's quite easy for the forecast winds aloft or weather to change slightly and the fuel burn was better than planned. Therefore they were slightly heavy on approach and decided to go around. They easily burned another 1 or 2 thousand pounds to circle around, which would be within landing weights. No conspiracy.