AA Oversold Business class on our flight this week, we lost award seats
May 21, 2019, 11:38 am
#61
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 468
There are direct trains from the Manchester Airport station to Edinburgh Waverley. They depart at 10.10, 12.10, .... every two hours, with connecting services scattered in between those times. It takes about 3.5 hours. Like others have said, that would be a very good option considering AA availability on PHL-MAN appears to be wide open.
May 21, 2019, 11:39 am
#62
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
Personally, what irks me about the situation is that if the flight is indeed oversold, AA will probably get away with downgrading OP and throwing a few miles at the situation. Even though AA could do much better—especially since OP caught the situation in advance.
May 21, 2019, 11:41 am
#63
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FlightStopsDepartArriveAircraft Frequency
ReliabilityAvailable Classes
(Click on the class code for details)
0 Connections
AA 278 0 PHL
05/22/19 9:00 PM EDI
05/23/19 9:10 AM 757
Daily
NA / NA J0 R0 D0 I0 Y2 B2 H2 K2 M2 L2 G2 V2 S2 N2 Q1 O1 E0
1 Connections
AA (BA) 6129 0 PHL
05/22/19 6:40 PM LHR
05/23/19 6:50 AM 747
Daily
78% / 25m F2 A1 J2 R0 D0 I0 W0 P0 Y7 H7 K7 M7 L6 G1 V4 S4 N3 Q0 O0
AA (BA) 6558 0 LHR
05/23/19 7:50 AM EDI
05/23/19 9:20 AM 319
Th
78% / 13m J7 R0 D0 I0 Y1 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
1 Connections
AA (BA) 6129 0 PHL
05/22/19 6:40 PM LHR
05/23/19 6:50 AM 747
Daily
78% / 25m F2 A1 J2 R0 D0 I0 W0 P0 Y7 H7 K7 M7 L6 G1 V4 S4 N3 Q0 O0
AA (BA) 6624 0 LHR
05/23/19 9:15 AM EDI
05/23/19 10:40 AM 319
Daily
88% / 11m J0 R0 D0 I0 Y0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
1 Connections
AA 736 0 PHL
05/22/19 7:15 PM LHR
05/23/19 7:45 AM 333
Daily
84% / 31m J1 R1 D1 I0 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L7 G7 V7 S7 N7 Q7 O5 E4
AA (BA) 6624 0 LHR
05/23/19 9:15 AM EDI
05/23/19 10:40 AM 319
Daily
88% / 11m J0 R0 D0 I0 Y0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
1 Connections
AA 736 0 PHL
05/22/19 7:15 PM LHR
05/23/19 7:45 AM 333
Daily
84% / 31m J1 R1 D1 I0 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L7 G7 V7 S7 N7 Q7 O5 E4
AA (BA) 6564 0 LHR
05/23/19 11:40 AM EDI
05/23/19 1:05 PM 319
Daily
95% / 11m J0 R0 D0 I0 Y0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
1 Connections
AA 728 0 PHL
05/22/19 9:55 PM LHR
05/23/19 10:20 AM 333
Daily
80% / 25m J1 R1 D1 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0 E0
AA (BA) 6562 0 LHR
05/23/19 1:00 PM EDI
05/23/19 2:30 PM 319
Su,M,T,W,Th,F
85% / 9m J7 R0 D0 I0 Y4 H0 K0 M0 L0 G0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
May 21, 2019, 11:45 am
#64
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,781
LOL. Because most of us here would rather schlep to the train station and take a 4hr train ride and/or add multiple stops to avoid flying in Y on an 8-hour flight.
Personally, what irks me about the situation is that if the flight is indeed oversold, AA will probably get away with downgrading OP and throwing a few miles at the situation. Even though AA could do much better—especially since OP caught the situation in advance.
Personally, what irks me about the situation is that if the flight is indeed oversold, AA will probably get away with downgrading OP and throwing a few miles at the situation. Even though AA could do much better—especially since OP caught the situation in advance.
The MAN-EDI train option isn't the worst thing, but riding the Tube for an hour followed by a wait for a four-hour train ride sounds like a rather unpleasant journey when the OP hasn't exhausted all other options yet.
May 21, 2019, 11:47 am
#65
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,545
I'm not sure who is telling the OP that, "all flights are full in business," but as someone pointed upthread, tomorrow's AA 734, PHL-MAN is listed as J7/C7. When you look at the seatmap on EF, it shows a fairly wide-open business cabin, with most of the middle section open and even a few vacant window seats.
I've done the train from Edinburgh to Manchester and I don't remember it being too bad; maybe 3 hours if I remember correctly.
If OLCI doesn't work for the OP's selected flights, I'd call and ask to be put on this one instead.
I've done the train from Edinburgh to Manchester and I don't remember it being too bad; maybe 3 hours if I remember correctly.
If OLCI doesn't work for the OP's selected flights, I'd call and ask to be put on this one instead.
use it as the fallback at DTW tomorrow.
first try to get the FIM to UA, so you are made whole and arrive into EDI in business class with one-stop as planned.
if no AA agent at DTW agrees to the FIM to UA, rebook to MAN at that point.
the walk-up fare MAN-EDI on FLYBE appears to be $132 at 12N Thurs for an hour flight
or $65 for a direct Manchester Airport to Edinburgh train on TransPennine Express at ~12N
no reason to commit now to MAN as that flight is wide open and the FIM chances are near zero if you have already accepted MAN
save receipts for claim to AA post travels.
May 21, 2019, 11:47 am
#66
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AA LT Gold
Posts: 3,645
I don't understand the fuzz.
There was a schedule change and the OP lost the assigned seats.
So this is an issue of unassigned seats nothing else?
The OP still has a ticket and is booked in business.
Most of the times, this resolves itself as there will be seats available at check-in.
Or OP has to go to the gate and GA will call volunteers to give up their business seats.
If no volunteers show up OP will be re-booked (just like a revenue pax, aaward inventory is irrelevant in this case?) and compensated according to IDB policies.
Do pax on overbooked flights get automatically and involuntarily bumped to economy at check-in? I had never heard of this.
There was a schedule change and the OP lost the assigned seats.
So this is an issue of unassigned seats nothing else?
The OP still has a ticket and is booked in business.
Most of the times, this resolves itself as there will be seats available at check-in.
Or OP has to go to the gate and GA will call volunteers to give up their business seats.
If no volunteers show up OP will be re-booked (just like a revenue pax, aaward inventory is irrelevant in this case?) and compensated according to IDB policies.
Do pax on overbooked flights get automatically and involuntarily bumped to economy at check-in? I had never heard of this.
May 21, 2019, 11:53 am
#67
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,545
I don't understand the fuzz.
There was a schedule change and the OP lost the assigned seats.
So this is an issue of unassigned seats nothing else?
The OP still has a ticket and is booked in business.
Most of the times, this resolves itself as there will be seats available at check-in.
Or OP has to go to the gate and GA will call volunteers to give up their business seats.
If no volunteers show up OP will be re-booked and compensated according to IDB policies.
Do pax on overbooked flights get automatically and involuntarily bumped to economy at check-in? I had never heard of this.
There was a schedule change and the OP lost the assigned seats.
So this is an issue of unassigned seats nothing else?
The OP still has a ticket and is booked in business.
Most of the times, this resolves itself as there will be seats available at check-in.
Or OP has to go to the gate and GA will call volunteers to give up their business seats.
If no volunteers show up OP will be re-booked and compensated according to IDB policies.
Do pax on overbooked flights get automatically and involuntarily bumped to economy at check-in? I had never heard of this.
never heard of AA asking for volunteers in exchange of compensation to accept a downgrade
AA just decides and informs the downgraded passenger.
Most people are sheep and AA gets away with it.
The point of this thread is to empower the original poster to not be one of the sheep
May 21, 2019, 11:55 am
#68
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
I'm 100% the same way, but at a certain point all the additional travel becomes just as exhausting as not sleeping on a flight that's under 7 hours in the air, and I'd rather plead my case to an airport agent at DTW or an AAngel in PHL than plan on an alternative.
The MAN-EDI train option isn't the worst thing, but riding the Tube for an hour followed by a wait for a four-hour train ride sounds like a rather unpleasant journey when the OP hasn't exhausted all other options yet.
The MAN-EDI train option isn't the worst thing, but riding the Tube for an hour followed by a wait for a four-hour train ride sounds like a rather unpleasant journey when the OP hasn't exhausted all other options yet.
At some point, it is good to step back and acknowledge that 8 hours in economy won't kill anyone, especially if it means getting to one's destination on time and not wasting precious vacation time sitting on planes or trains. Unfortunately, AA (and other airlines too) know that—and know that under the rules compensation for a downgrade doesn't have to be very much. In theory, compensation for an IDB can be more, but at that point it's a decision of whether the money is worth the lost vacation time.
May 21, 2019, 11:56 am
#69
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
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I took a look at the load on PHL-EDI flight tomorrow.
It is full in coach and oversold by two in biz. (171 seats available/173 confirmed)
On the other hand, PHL-MAN has 11 open seats in biz.
Not sure whether you are checking a bag or not -- or how flexible/low stress you are.
If it was me, I'd go with carry on, wait till I got to PHL and deal with it. I'd then go to the Admirals Club and ask them if there are going to be any misconnects that will open up seats.
It seems to me someone will be willing to put you on the Manchester flight and give you something in exchange for it. Thinking that's more likely to be the gate agent than the AC, although the AC will have been information on availability. For 20000 miles for the two of you, I'd go to Manchester and take the train to Edinburgh. Its "quite pleasant" to sit on the train with tea going through the English and Scottish coujntryside.
Not sure the best way to negotiate that though.
It is full in coach and oversold by two in biz. (171 seats available/173 confirmed)
On the other hand, PHL-MAN has 11 open seats in biz.
Not sure whether you are checking a bag or not -- or how flexible/low stress you are.
If it was me, I'd go with carry on, wait till I got to PHL and deal with it. I'd then go to the Admirals Club and ask them if there are going to be any misconnects that will open up seats.
It seems to me someone will be willing to put you on the Manchester flight and give you something in exchange for it. Thinking that's more likely to be the gate agent than the AC, although the AC will have been information on availability. For 20000 miles for the two of you, I'd go to Manchester and take the train to Edinburgh. Its "quite pleasant" to sit on the train with tea going through the English and Scottish coujntryside.
Not sure the best way to negotiate that though.
May 21, 2019, 11:57 am
#70
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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HUCA and keep trying to find an agent that is willing to help you. You should absolutely be able to correct this on the phone. As others have noted, find flights with seats that work for you and then call.
Case in point from last week. Family of 4 flying AA/BA on AUS-JFK-LGW in Business on award seats. AA retimed AUS-JFK resulting in a 10 hour connection vs. the original 5 hours.
A great AAgent had RM open 4 U class business award seats so they are now flying AUS-DFW-LHR all on AA with much less travel time. And they got a $2,400 refund of BA scam charges.
Case in point from last week. Family of 4 flying AA/BA on AUS-JFK-LGW in Business on award seats. AA retimed AUS-JFK resulting in a 10 hour connection vs. the original 5 hours.
A great AAgent had RM open 4 U class business award seats so they are now flying AUS-DFW-LHR all on AA with much less travel time. And they got a $2,400 refund of BA scam charges.
May 21, 2019, 12:01 pm
#71
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
I took a look at the load on PHL-EDI flight tomorrow.
It is full in coach and oversold by two in biz. (171 seats available/173 confirmed)
On the other hand, PHL-MAN has 11 open seats in biz.
Not sure whether you are checking a bag or not -- or how flexible/low stress you are.
If it was me, I'd go with carry on, wait till I got to PHL and deal with it. I'd then go to the Admirals Club and ask them if there are going to be any misconnects that will open up seats.
It seems to me someone will be willing to put you on the Manchester flight and give you something in exchange for it. Thinking that's more likely to be the gate agent than the AC, although the AC will have been information on availability. For 20000 miles for the two of you, I'd go to Manchester and take the train to Edinburgh. Its "quite pleasant" to sit on the train with tea going through the English and Scottish coujntryside.
Not sure the best way to negotiate that though.
It is full in coach and oversold by two in biz. (171 seats available/173 confirmed)
On the other hand, PHL-MAN has 11 open seats in biz.
Not sure whether you are checking a bag or not -- or how flexible/low stress you are.
If it was me, I'd go with carry on, wait till I got to PHL and deal with it. I'd then go to the Admirals Club and ask them if there are going to be any misconnects that will open up seats.
It seems to me someone will be willing to put you on the Manchester flight and give you something in exchange for it. Thinking that's more likely to be the gate agent than the AC, although the AC will have been information on availability. For 20000 miles for the two of you, I'd go to Manchester and take the train to Edinburgh. Its "quite pleasant" to sit on the train with tea going through the English and Scottish coujntryside.
Not sure the best way to negotiate that though.
But overall, definitely worth trying multiple people until you get an answer with which you're satisfied.
May 21, 2019, 12:01 pm
#72
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Totally agreed. The first part of my response was really half joking / stated with wry amusement.
At some point, it is good to step back and acknowledge that 8 hours in economy won't kill anyone, especially if it means getting to one's destination on time and not wasting precious vacation time sitting on planes or trains. Unfortunately, AA (and other airlines too) know that—and know that under the rules compensation for a downgrade doesn't have to be very much. In theory, compensation for an IDB can be more, but at that point it's a decision of whether the money is worth the lost vacation time.
At some point, it is good to step back and acknowledge that 8 hours in economy won't kill anyone, especially if it means getting to one's destination on time and not wasting precious vacation time sitting on planes or trains. Unfortunately, AA (and other airlines too) know that—and know that under the rules compensation for a downgrade doesn't have to be very much. In theory, compensation for an IDB can be more, but at that point it's a decision of whether the money is worth the lost vacation time.
Good luck getting IDB compensation if the airline offers you a coach seat on the same flight.
May 21, 2019, 12:04 pm
#73
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AA LT Gold
Posts: 3,645
Don't they do this when business is overbooked? (just as they do with economy)
So what you are saying is that when there is an overbooked situation in business, the gate agents start to automatically downgrade pax to Y? I did not know that.
Furthermore, what is the process when there is an overbooking situation in business? Is it any different than Y?
Do pax on awards get treated differently than revenue pax? In Y, I don't think they are treated any differently and the VDB process is done (volunteers for voucher and re-booking to open up seats). Is it any different for business?
Last edited by carlosdca; May 21, 2019 at 12:20 pm
May 21, 2019, 12:07 pm
#74
Join Date: Sep 2000
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My issue with doing it at the airport is that, in general, as every minute passes, inventory gets more and more constricted and your options become fewer and fewer. Now you can benefit from other people's misfortune (flat tire, missed connection, etc.), but being downgraded to Y often means 1) being downgraded and receiving very little to cover the miles difference let alone the fatigue factor from a downgrade from J to Y and 2) being given whatever cast off seats are left on the plane - middle seats, last row with no recline, seats near the lavs.
If J means it to you (for the OP), I would go with the MAN route and then work for some type of recompense after the trip is over.
If J means it to you (for the OP), I would go with the MAN route and then work for some type of recompense after the trip is over.