Hosed by Basic Economy Refund Policy after outbound flight canellation
#31
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM, AA EXP, various hotel
Posts: 2,227
There's also nothing in the CoC that states that AA can cancel the return segments because the ice cream machine at McDonald's wasn't working. You are conflating two different parts of the CoC.
It does say that AA can cancel the return if you don't fly the previous segments.
It does say that in the event of a cancellation, AA will rebook you on the next available flight. It also says if you decide not to fly, the remaining ticket value will be refunded.
So in this case, flight was cancelled and pax was rebooked resulting in a complete itinerary once again. As a complete itinerary if you don't fly a segment, the remaining segments can be cancelled.
When a flight is cancelled on an itinerary the flight is at one of two points in the itinerary. At the beginning or during. If you decide you want a refund due to the cancellation you would, as outlined in the CoC, be eligible for a refund for any unused/unflown segments. If the flight is at the beginning, it would be a full refund. If during, it would be for the remaining segments.
In this case, the flight was at the beginning so a full refund, which is what AA offered. And that lines up exactly with what the CoC says. Two choices. Fly or refund. There is no option in the CoC to "chose which segments of the itinerary you want to fly and which ones you don't and we'll refund the ones you don't". Certainly as a customer service gesture AA can and I'm sure does this on occasion for whatever reason. But it's not listed as a remedy in the CoC.
It does say that AA can cancel the return if you don't fly the previous segments.
It does say that in the event of a cancellation, AA will rebook you on the next available flight. It also says if you decide not to fly, the remaining ticket value will be refunded.
So in this case, flight was cancelled and pax was rebooked resulting in a complete itinerary once again. As a complete itinerary if you don't fly a segment, the remaining segments can be cancelled.
When a flight is cancelled on an itinerary the flight is at one of two points in the itinerary. At the beginning or during. If you decide you want a refund due to the cancellation you would, as outlined in the CoC, be eligible for a refund for any unused/unflown segments. If the flight is at the beginning, it would be a full refund. If during, it would be for the remaining segments.
In this case, the flight was at the beginning so a full refund, which is what AA offered. And that lines up exactly with what the CoC says. Two choices. Fly or refund. There is no option in the CoC to "chose which segments of the itinerary you want to fly and which ones you don't and we'll refund the ones you don't". Certainly as a customer service gesture AA can and I'm sure does this on occasion for whatever reason. But it's not listed as a remedy in the CoC.
Your argument is that once a passenger is rebooked after a cancelled flight, not flying the rebooked flight becomes grounds to cancel all remaining segments in the itinerary. I do not believe that argument holds up, either by the terms of the CoC or using the sort of common sense that any DOT bureaucrats or judges would bring to the table. AA cancelled the flight. The OP wants to fly all segments as booked except for the segment that he metaphysically cannot fly because AA cancelled it.
#32
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
Your argument is that once a passenger is rebooked after a cancelled flight, not flying the rebooked flight becomes grounds to cancel all remaining segments in the itinerary. I do not believe that argument holds up, either by the terms of the CoC or using the sort of common sense that any DOT bureaucrats or judges would bring to the table.
Heck, it's posted here just about every day in many forums. HUCA. Don't like what they tell you? Call back for a different answer. I wanted to do this or I wanted to do that and the airline said "no". Call back and try again for a different answer. I realize many times that is because passengers are given wrong answers. I'm not talking about those times. I'm talking about someone's itinerary being changed and being advised to call back to see if a preferred routing is available.
In the OP's case, the original routing was AAA-BBB-CCC. It was changed to AAA-DDD-BBB-CCC. OP wanted to change the itinerary completely and just make it BBB-CCC. While AA certainly has the power to do that, they aren't required to. Often they will gladly do something like AAA-EEE-BBB-CCC or AAA-FFF-CCC, etc., or even a co-terminal of AAA and/or CCC. But an essentially complete change, even if it involves some of the original airports, isn't necessarily something they will do, nor do they have to under the CoC and DOT rules.
That's why I said you are conflating different parts of the CoC. You're taking part of the reasons for cancellations and part of the remedies for cancellation and trying to just apply parts of each as a whole.
Last edited by justhere; May 5, 2019 at 5:25 am
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
What if the passenger doesn't accept the new itinerary, calls and drops the outbound, flies the return, and requests a refund for the unflown segment?
What AA is representing as the terms of their contract serves only one function, which is to make it difficult to rebook to another airline when they cancel your ticket.
And even if their CoC actually says that (which I don't think it does), that doesn't mean it's an enforceable provision. You can't hide "and if we don't give you what you paid for, we get to substitute whatever we want and keep your money" in a contract of adhesion and expect anyone to enforce it.
What AA is representing as the terms of their contract serves only one function, which is to make it difficult to rebook to another airline when they cancel your ticket.
And even if their CoC actually says that (which I don't think it does), that doesn't mean it's an enforceable provision. You can't hide "and if we don't give you what you paid for, we get to substitute whatever we want and keep your money" in a contract of adhesion and expect anyone to enforce it.
#34
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
What people are trying to tell you is there's no such thing as this. You can't just "call and drop the outbound and fly the return". It's not a thing you can do. Without the cancellation, that would require reticketing at the prevailing one-way fare for the return. With the cancellation by the airline, you can either (a) change to a new round-trip itinerary with the same origin and destination or (b) cancel the remaining unflown part of the ticket for a refund. In this case, the "remaining unflown part" is outbound and return.
There is no option (c) to cancel part of the unflown itinerary for a refund and keep another part of the itinerary. You would have this option if you had booked as two one-way tickets (which has its own risks, most obviously that you could wind up in the opposite of your situation where one way is canceled and you'd like to rebook the whole RT on another carrier, but you would be stuck with the return flight whether you wanted it or not because it's on a different ticket).
By the way, don't read what I have said above as saying you could never find an agent to do this for you. Agents do make customer service exceptions all the time, depending on your status, type of ticket, etc. With Basic Economy the agents have been instructed not to make exceptions. Ultimately, you're looking for flexibility after specifically buying an ultra-inflexible product, which is why it's not surprising that you're not finding it.
#35
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
What if the passenger doesn't accept the new itinerary, calls and drops the outbound, flies the return, and requests a refund for the unflown segment?
What AA is representing as the terms of their contract serves only one function, which is to make it difficult to rebook to another airline when they cancel your ticket.
And even if their CoC actually says that (which I don't think it does), that doesn't mean it's an enforceable provision. You can't hide "and if we don't give you what you paid for, we get to substitute whatever we want and keep your money" in a contract of adhesion and expect anyone to enforce it.
What AA is representing as the terms of their contract serves only one function, which is to make it difficult to rebook to another airline when they cancel your ticket.
And even if their CoC actually says that (which I don't think it does), that doesn't mean it's an enforceable provision. You can't hide "and if we don't give you what you paid for, we get to substitute whatever we want and keep your money" in a contract of adhesion and expect anyone to enforce it.
Not sure which part you are referring to with "And even if their CoC says that", however no one is saying that the CoC says "If we don't give you what you paid for, we get to...keep your money". The CoC does say that number of stopovers, stopover cities, times, etc may change. If there is significant change to those items, you can normally get a refund and time changes over 61 minutes you can definitely get a refund as per the CoC.
#37
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
I'm not sure which viewpoint you are finding amusing but I'm guessing that you are referring to the "fly the new itinerary or cancel the ticket" interpretation as being amusing? But as that's what the CoC says I'm not sure even though it doesn't seem to fit your interpretation earlier in the thread.
#38
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DL: Silver; AA: EX PLAT; UA: Silver; HY: DIA; HH: DIA; MR: TIT
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