Another day, another AA 125 (DFW-HKG 26 Apr) issue (ICN diversion)
Apr 28, 2019, 1:46 pm
#31
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Exactly, people forget about the "lag" factor in flight planning for these ULH flights.
Most government-issued TAFs (terminal area forecast) are issued every 6 hours. HKG TAFs come out at 0500z and 1100z (UTC time). the DFW-HKG flight leaves at 1535z, and arrives at 0810z the next day, so whichever dispatcher gets to plan that beast is using a HKG destination weather forecast issued at 1100z that will be about 21 hours old when the flight actually gets there. Its one thing to say it'll be sunny and 85F in San Diego tomorrow, and quite another to forecast surface wind speed, direction, and convective coverage nearly a day away. If you throw in a bad wind package into your flight planning software, and get held down at lower altitudes on very crowded airways over Russia and China, your fuel situation can get pretty tight in a hurry with still quite a bit of flying still to go.
Most government-issued TAFs (terminal area forecast) are issued every 6 hours. HKG TAFs come out at 0500z and 1100z (UTC time). the DFW-HKG flight leaves at 1535z, and arrives at 0810z the next day, so whichever dispatcher gets to plan that beast is using a HKG destination weather forecast issued at 1100z that will be about 21 hours old when the flight actually gets there. Its one thing to say it'll be sunny and 85F in San Diego tomorrow, and quite another to forecast surface wind speed, direction, and convective coverage nearly a day away. If you throw in a bad wind package into your flight planning software, and get held down at lower altitudes on very crowded airways over Russia and China, your fuel situation can get pretty tight in a hurry with still quite a bit of flying still to go.
given that this is a viable situation with some semblance of regularity, getting caught with your pants down again and again is pretty poor.
Apr 28, 2019, 2:26 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2011
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The lesson here is always make sure you can get on wifi, because it is more probably than not that in the event of a diversion, you won't get squat for a hotel or help of any sort.
Apr 28, 2019, 2:46 pm
#33
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AA needs B777-8 for HKG routes. Maybe a fleet of 10 so that AA can have a double daily from DFW and maintain daily LAX. A rotation of DFW-LHR-DFW-HKG-LAX-LHR-LAX-HKG-DFW could make that potentially work for AA. I am just saying.
May 2, 2019, 10:01 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2010
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777-300ER / 77W. Affected by winds aloft, and of course crew timing out issues. ICN rather than PEK, PVG etc. because of visa and other issues, but if there had been available crew they’d have been 787 crew, not 777.
The awful part of this is passengers were treated quite poorly. Many were bussed to a hotel, only to find out the hotel had no rooms available. Huge fail. And of course the can gets kicked down the road, because the delayed HKG arrival will cause knock-on effects on departures.
The awful part of this is passengers were treated quite poorly. Many were bussed to a hotel, only to find out the hotel had no rooms available. Huge fail. And of course the can gets kicked down the road, because the delayed HKG arrival will cause knock-on effects on departures.
My final destination was Singapore not Hong Kong it was 4:00 PM local Seoul time I was pretty sure I could get to Singapore that evening. While waiting for our new boarding passes for the continuation of AA 125, departing at 11:00 the next day, I called the exec plat desk asking to get me to Singapore that day. After waiting I was told that I could leave that evening to Tokyo, change airports, then the next day go through Hong Kong and arrive Singapore late evening, ALL IN COACH! That was not going to work.
I thought I would try Travelocity and there was a Korean Airlines flight departing at 11:30 that evening with seats in Y, J, and F. I called back to the exec desk, explained my predicament and said I was looking at availability on the KE flight. I was told there was no availability on that flight
I ended up buying a J ticket and got to Singapore only 5 hours late.
So HOW is a guy standing in an Korean airport with an iPad and access to Travelocity able to do what two executive platinum reps with access to Sabre were unable to do? Not the ideal way to treat a long time customer.
Last edited by DFWHockeyguy; May 2, 2019 at 11:42 am
May 2, 2019, 10:25 am
#35
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I was on this flight and the two Key customers that pre-boarded were the only two people that went to the "transfer" area. they were met by AA personnel, with I am assuming new boarding passes in hand (again we exited through customs and they went to transfer) so the CK's were not treated the same. As for the "eggssplats" (love that term) we were not given any preferential treatment...see my full post above about trying to get to Singapore 
May 2, 2019, 10:52 am
#36
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I was on this flight and while the diversion was frustrating it certainly falls under the heading of “stuff happens”. My real frustration started after we made it to Seoul...
..So HOW is a guy standing in an Korean airport with an iPad and access to Travelocity able to do what two executive platinum reps with access to Sabre were unable to do? Not the ideal way to treat a long time customer.
..So HOW is a guy standing in an Korean airport with an iPad and access to Travelocity able to do what two executive platinum reps with access to Sabre were unable to do? Not the ideal way to treat a long time customer.
Under what circumstances does AA rebook pax on other airlines?
I dealt with a similar issue coming back from ICN. MX delays caused crew to time out after we already boarded. Flight cancelled. Pulled up ITA and saw a QR flight through DOH that would depart a few hours later or overnight in ICN and get a morning direct on KE to my final destination. Called the EP line, told them the two options and they said basically said that's fine which one do you prefer? Went with KE as it got me home sooner.
So why the disparate results between EPs?
The only other data point that I can add was that the J ticket on KE was booked into a special fare code that, after a cursory google search, appears to be used for interline bookings between airlines. So perhaps in DFWHockeyguy's case the KE flight was nearly sold out and they couldn't accommodate interlines?
May 2, 2019, 11:14 am
#37
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Need to drill down on this issue more.
Under what circumstances does AA rebook pax on other airlines?
I dealt with a similar issue coming back from ICN. MX delays caused crew to time out after we already boarded. Flight cancelled. Pulled up ITA and saw a QR flight through DOH that would depart a few hours later or overnight in ICN and get a morning direct on KE to my final destination. Called the EP line, told them the two options and they said basically said that's fine which one do you prefer? Went with KE as it got me home sooner.
So why the disparate results between EPs?
The only other data point that I can add was that the J ticket on KE was booked into a special fare code that, after a cursory google search, appears to be used for interline bookings between airlines. So perhaps in DFWHockeyguy's case the KE flight was nearly sold out and they couldn't accommodate interlines?
Under what circumstances does AA rebook pax on other airlines?
I dealt with a similar issue coming back from ICN. MX delays caused crew to time out after we already boarded. Flight cancelled. Pulled up ITA and saw a QR flight through DOH that would depart a few hours later or overnight in ICN and get a morning direct on KE to my final destination. Called the EP line, told them the two options and they said basically said that's fine which one do you prefer? Went with KE as it got me home sooner.
So why the disparate results between EPs?
The only other data point that I can add was that the J ticket on KE was booked into a special fare code that, after a cursory google search, appears to be used for interline bookings between airlines. So perhaps in DFWHockeyguy's case the KE flight was nearly sold out and they couldn't accommodate interlines?
In DFWHockeyguy's case, the diversion was caused by strong winds, so AA likely blamed the diversion on weather and aren't obligated to rebook on other airlines. Though there have been some reports of agents rebooking ExPlat's on other airlines as a result of weather but that seems to be the exception rather than the norm.
In GNVGator's case, MX caused the cancellation so the agents were allowed to rebook on other airlines.
May 2, 2019, 4:30 pm
#38
Join Date: May 2004
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Real people/passengers only. No CK's invited (don't want them associating with the riff raff)
Expect 1 (one) AA deputy assistant junior vice president in charge of sitting by the door, age 25 as the company representation.
(Sarcasm off )
May 2, 2019, 4:36 pm
#39
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May 2, 2019, 4:41 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2004
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I was on this flight and the two Key customers that pre-boarded were the only two people that went to the "transfer" area. they were met by AA personnel, with I am assuming new boarding passes in hand (again we exited through customs and they went to transfer) so the CK's were not treated the same. As for the "eggssplats" (love that term) we were not given any preferential treatment...see my full post above about trying to get to Singapore
(Sarcasm on)
Death to CK's. Lillies of the field.
(Sarcasm off)
May 2, 2019, 7:42 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Best case for you is they give you a decent refund for the unused part of your ticket that will help defray your out of pocket cost, and then throw in a voucher or miles to help some more. I doubt you'll be made whole.
The other frustrating aspect of this is that if AA rebooks you can get ORC for the missed AA segments plus credit in the other airline's program. By booking your own you lose the AA miles.
May 3, 2019, 6:42 am
#42
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I was on AA126 HKG-DFW on Monday 4/29 which used the same crew as the delayed DFW-HKG flight. Also, I was on AA193 LAX-HKG that arrived on Friday 4/26 in the morning. Seems the problem was that a typhoon hit HKG the afternoon of 4/26 which caused the diversion according to the FA I spoke with. The LAX-HKG flight had no problem as we missed the weather, but my DFW flight was delayed by 6 hours due to crew timing. Keep in mind that the DFW-HKG flights have a tight window, like 1 to 1.5 hours, so any delays cause havoc.