Another day, another AA 125 (DFW-HKG 26 Apr) issue (ICN diversion)
Apr 27, 2019, 1:36 pm
#16
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-FlyerBeek
Apr 27, 2019, 3:00 pm
#17
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At what cost? With what spares (77W and crew)? Besides, this was unforeseen.
Apr 27, 2019, 3:05 pm
#18
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Apr 27, 2019, 3:19 pm
#19
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Beyond that, knowing that this is more than a one-time issue, they should have a contingency plan in place.
Apr 27, 2019, 3:23 pm
#20
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Apr 27, 2019, 5:49 pm
#21
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Try getting diverted to TPE of all airports on this flight.....quite the ordeal we went through.
Last edited by AANYC1981; Apr 27, 2019 at 6:05 pm
Apr 27, 2019, 5:50 pm
#22
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Except that AA does not have 777 crew at SEA or ANC etc.. And positioning them in advance is very very complicated - and would likely waste valuable crew resources (and $$) if the winds changed and allowed AA to operate nonstop...
Apr 27, 2019, 7:18 pm
#23
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The crew and dispatchers won’t know typically that there might be a fuel issue until well well into the flights. In the case of winds aloft stronger than forecasted, it wudnt be until we’ll over China/Russia/Japan (depending on the route that day) that there might be an issue as the effects of a wind bust are slow to accumulate. So diverting back won’t ever happen in these rare cases.
Add to this heavy weather/tstms at HKG (as has been the case lately) and consuming more fuel than planned enroute due to a wind bust—dispatchers and crew might not consider proceeding to HKG the best choice. No doubt it’s a tough call to make but rest assured safety is numero uno!
Add to this heavy weather/tstms at HKG (as has been the case lately) and consuming more fuel than planned enroute due to a wind bust—dispatchers and crew might not consider proceeding to HKG the best choice. No doubt it’s a tough call to make but rest assured safety is numero uno!
Apr 27, 2019, 8:45 pm
#24
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5ICN/FLT 0125 STUB ORIG PLN DEP ICN ETD 1100 -- ICN .RMKS WX DIVERSION FTWDP T.SHELTON *1548
4ICN/OUT1116 *2116
5HKG/INTMD LNDG OVER HKG TO ICN DUE TO WEATHER *0211*FTWMG3
2HKG/PRE1348 *2116
4ICN/OUT1116 *2116
5HKG/INTMD LNDG OVER HKG TO ICN DUE TO WEATHER *0211*FTWMG3
2HKG/PRE1348 *2116
Apr 27, 2019, 10:15 pm
#25
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I’m curious why AA has issues with this while CX seemingly does not (specifically with regard to crew time outs on diversions). CX812 HKG-BOS had a medical diversion to ANC a couple weeks ago and then continued onward to BOS without issue. Ground stop at ANC of about an hour.
Is the crew timing issue contractual or legal? I do know that CX has 4 flight crew and 14 cabin crew on their 77W. Not sure if AA staffing is the same.
Is the crew timing issue contractual or legal? I do know that CX has 4 flight crew and 14 cabin crew on their 77W. Not sure if AA staffing is the same.
Apr 28, 2019, 2:30 am
#26
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The crew and dispatchers won’t know typically that there might be a fuel issue until well well into the flights. In the case of winds aloft stronger than forecasted, it wudnt be until we’ll over China/Russia/Japan (depending on the route that day) that there might be an issue as the effects of a wind bust are slow to accumulate. So diverting back won’t ever happen in these rare cases.
Add to this heavy weather/tstms at HKG (as has been the case lately) and consuming more fuel than planned enroute due to a wind bust—dispatchers and crew might not consider proceeding to HKG the best choice. No doubt it’s a tough call to make but rest assured safety is numero uno!
Add to this heavy weather/tstms at HKG (as has been the case lately) and consuming more fuel than planned enroute due to a wind bust—dispatchers and crew might not consider proceeding to HKG the best choice. No doubt it’s a tough call to make but rest assured safety is numero uno!
Most government-issued TAFs (terminal area forecast) are issued every 6 hours. HKG TAFs come out at 0500z and 1100z (UTC time). the DFW-HKG flight leaves at 1535z, and arrives at 0810z the next day, so whichever dispatcher gets to plan that beast is using a HKG destination weather forecast issued at 1100z that will be about 21 hours old when the flight actually gets there. Its one thing to say it'll be sunny and 85F in San Diego tomorrow, and quite another to forecast surface wind speed, direction, and convective coverage nearly a day away. If you throw in a bad wind package into your flight planning software, and get held down at lower altitudes on very crowded airways over Russia and China, your fuel situation can get pretty tight in a hurry with still quite a bit of flying still to go.
Apr 28, 2019, 3:00 am
#27
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Exactly, people forget about the "lag" factor in flight planning for these ULH flights.
Most government-issued TAFs (terminal area forecast) are issued every 6 hours. HKG TAFs come out at 0500z and 1100z (UTC time). the DFW-HKG flight leaves at 1535z, and arrives at 0810z the next day, so whichever dispatcher gets to plan that beast is using a HKG destination weather forecast issued at 1100z that will be about 21 hours old when the flight actually gets there. Its one thing to say it'll be sunny and 85F in San Diego tomorrow, and quite another to forecast surface wind speed, direction, and convective coverage nearly a day away. If you throw in a bad wind package into your flight planning software, and get held down at lower altitudes on very crowded airways over Russia and China, your fuel situation can get pretty tight in a hurry with still quite a bit of flying still to go.
Most government-issued TAFs (terminal area forecast) are issued every 6 hours. HKG TAFs come out at 0500z and 1100z (UTC time). the DFW-HKG flight leaves at 1535z, and arrives at 0810z the next day, so whichever dispatcher gets to plan that beast is using a HKG destination weather forecast issued at 1100z that will be about 21 hours old when the flight actually gets there. Its one thing to say it'll be sunny and 85F in San Diego tomorrow, and quite another to forecast surface wind speed, direction, and convective coverage nearly a day away. If you throw in a bad wind package into your flight planning software, and get held down at lower altitudes on very crowded airways over Russia and China, your fuel situation can get pretty tight in a hurry with still quite a bit of flying still to go.
Apr 28, 2019, 6:15 am
#28
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Again, it's not that simple. So AA should always have a pre-staged 777 crew of 4 pilots sitting at SEA or ANC just in case AA125 needs to divert? Also, frequently on this route (and other ULH routes) the necessity for a fuel diversion due to winds wouldn't be certain until much later enroute.
-FlyerBeek
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Apr 28, 2019, 1:44 pm
#30
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~24 hours plus one, I think. AA gave them a rather spare snack kit for their efforts, and all alcoholic beverages were removed (and not replaced) at ICN. Going for... uh, I can’t remember.
