Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > American Airlines | AAdvantage
Reload this Page >

Crazy rule about removing a systemwide upgrade

Crazy rule about removing a systemwide upgrade

Reply

Old Apr 10, 19, 9:10 am
  #1  
Original Member
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: los angeles
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Courtesy card. Delta 2MM
Posts: 1,739
Thumbs down Crazy rule about removing a systemwide upgrade

I used a systemwide upgrade on a transcon from J to F. I tried to remove it to use for a different flight. I was told that since my original J class fare was unavailable I would have to pay more to go back to J. Is this crazy or HUCA ?
The representative checked with someone to confirm this.
mmgm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 9:41 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by mmgm View Post
I used a systemwide upgrade on a transcon from J to F. I tried to remove it to use for a different flight. I was told that since my original J class fare was unavailable I would have to pay more to go back to J. Is this crazy or HUCA ?
The representative checked with someone to confirm this.
If you want to use the SWU for an international flight, would it make sense to ask about changing the transcon upgrade to a miles + copay?
MathMusic likes this.
ShortDog is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 9:56 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: AA Plat, DL WFBF, National Emerald Club, Global Entry, CSR, IHG Gold
Posts: 1,344
I don't know the exact rule here but from what I understand of the OP, the SWU is confirmed, not just requested. It is easy to "un-request" an upgrade for which you're standing by, but once your upgrade is confirmed, it's not possible to "un-upgrade". Once your ticket is re-issued you are an F passenger, not a J passenger who happens to be upgraded to F (and correctly you will be treated like an F passenger in the event of IRROPS, etc). Un-upgrading means another ticket change and of course requires the desired inventory to be available.

A different perspective: once your SWU clears you into F, that opens up the J inventory, which AA can sell to someone else. If you come back later and decide you don't want the upgrade, what are they supposed to do if that inventory is now long gone (which is what it sounds like has happened)? In the extreme, should they oversell J so that you can have your SWU back? If I was in AA's position I wouldn't let you do this.

Agree with ShortDog's advice as something you could try but if they don't let you do this, I would seriously move on.
IAHtraveler likes this.
wetrat0 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 11:40 am
  #4  
Original Member
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: los angeles
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Courtesy card. Delta 2MM
Posts: 1,739
Originally Posted by wetrat0 View Post
I don't know the exact rule here but from what I understand of the OP, the SWU is confirmed, not just requested. It is easy to "un-request" an upgrade for which you're standing by, but once your upgrade is confirmed, it's not possible to "un-upgrade". Once your ticket is re-issued you are an F passenger, not a J passenger who happens to be upgraded to F (and correctly you will be treated like an F passenger in the event of IRROPS, etc). Un-upgrading means another ticket change and of course requires the desired inventory to be available.

A different perspective: once your SWU clears you into F, that opens up the J inventory, which AA can sell to someone else. If you come back later and decide you don't want the upgrade, what are they supposed to do if that inventory is now long gone (which is what it sounds like has happened)? In the extreme, should they oversell J so that you can have your SWU back? If I was in AA's position I wouldn't let you do this.

Agree with ShortDog's advice as something you could try but if they don't let you do this, I would seriously move on.
J is wide open. Itís my fare class that is gone. As an EXP for the past 20 years this is something I have done several times in the past. I was never told my fare class had to be available in the past.
mmgm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 12:27 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 5,531
Originally Posted by mmgm View Post

J is wide open. Itís my fare class that is gone. As an EXP for the past 20 years this is something I have done several times in the past. I was never told my fare class had to be available in the past.
Have you tried a few HUCAs?
JJeffrey is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 1:33 pm
  #6  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 41,301
While AA generally advises that its front line agents do not have the capability to call RM, I would nonetheless refine my next call. If the agent processes the downgrade, all the better. But, if she does not due to J fare bucket considerations, ask whether she can make the request that AA free up a J seat in the required fare bucket.

Not something I would expect to take place during a call, but worth the effort.
Often1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 1:47 pm
  #7  
Original Member
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: los angeles
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Courtesy card. Delta 2MM
Posts: 1,739
Originally Posted by JJeffrey View Post
Have you tried a few HUCAs?
I tried a second time and was quoted the same rule. From my experience this is clearly a new rule.
mmgm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 2:36 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: RTM/AMS & CUR
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by mmgm View Post

I tried a second time and was quoted the same rule. From my experience this is clearly a new rule.
No, as far as I can remember, this rule has been around for a long time. (Though it might not have been strictly enforced.) Perhaps all the other times you did it, your original fare class was available?
Djokison is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 2:41 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: LHR
Programs: AA EXP, DL DM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 858
Originally Posted by Djokison View Post


No, as far as I can remember, this rule has been around for a long time. (Though it might not have been strictly enforced.) Perhaps all the other times you did it, your original fare class was available?
+1, I've encountered this rule a few times, even 3 or 4 years ago. I do agree that enforcement might be more strict now -- AA management seems to be hell-bent on making sure even top customers aren't treated nicely once in a while...
taxicabnumber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:10 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 39,374
Originally Posted by mmgm View Post
I used a systemwide upgrade on a transcon from J to F. I tried to remove it to use for a different flight. I was told that since my original J class fare was unavailable I would have to pay more to go back to J. Is this crazy or HUCA ?
The representative checked with someone to confirm this.
I believe that this is correct. If booked in , say, 'I' class and the upgrade is available, the ticket is reissued in the new booking class (A I believe for 1st class ). The process to downgrade is the same. The ricket has to be rebooked into business class inventory; if 'I' class is no longer available then needs to be booked into the next lowest available class

Originally Posted by mmgm View Post

J is wide open. It’s my fare class that is gone. As an EXP for the past 20 years this is something I have done several times in the past. I was never told my fare class had to be available in the past.
Perhaps in the previous cases, the booking class has been available, so no reason for the agent to say anything
Dave Noble is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:15 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,679
Isn't this the case for any upgrade, not just SWUs?
richarddd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:29 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: RTM/AMS & CUR
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by richarddd View Post
Isn't this the case for any upgrade, not just SWUs?
Correct, this is the case for 500 mile upgrades, as well.
Djokison is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:40 pm
  #13  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 80,294
Originally Posted by mmgm View Post
I used a systemwide upgrade on a transcon from J to F. I tried to remove it to use for a different flight. I was told that since my original J class fare was unavailable I would have to pay more to go back to J. Is this crazy or HUCA ?
The representative checked with someone to confirm this.
Could part of the problem be that your original fare class has an advanced purchase requirement that you cannot meet now? That would explain why the J cabin is wide open but your fare class isn't available. I'm not sure whether this could make it harder for an agent to override the requirement and reissue your ticket in business class.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:42 pm
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 22,802
Originally Posted by Djokison View Post


Correct, this is the case for 500 mile upgrades, as well.
There have definitely been reports of this over the years.
The difference is that you can clear a 500-mile upgrade request in advance without having the stickers in your account. If you then refuse to purchase the stickers, and your original fare class isn't available, it kind of puts AA between a rock and a hard place. Either they force the downgrade, or they IDB you. I believe the former requires either a supervisor or a call to revenue management, but 99% sure that's what they'll do.

AA downgrades people from time to time, it's probably fair to say that not all those times is the original booking class available, yet they make it happen. It's just a matter of whether they want to or not...
ijgordon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 10, 19, 3:45 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 22,802
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Could part of the problem be that your original fare class has an advanced purchase requirement that you cannot meet now? That would explain why the J cabin is wide open but your fare class isn't available. I'm not sure whether this could make it harder for an agent to override the requirement and reissue your ticket in business class.
In theory, if that even is the case (and I'm not sure it is) that would only be a problem on the first segment of an itinerary. May or may not be relevant for the OP.

That said, AA certainly zeros out (or limits the sale of) "I" inventory on near-empty transcons in advance; it would certainly be easy enough to check. I also think there are probably some pretty expensive I fares out there with minimal advance purchase requirements on these routes.
ijgordon is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread