Strange denial of boarding on MAN-PHL
Mar 28, 2019, 5:41 pm
#1
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Strange denial of boarding on MAN-PHL
So normally EC261/2004 protects passengers from being bumped, delayed or cancelled on. I am actually pretty familiar with the law and its workings. Now here’s a strange scenario that has been brought to my attention and I’m curious of other folks thoughts:
Friend of mine is on a flight MAN-PHL, it’s an American Airlines flight. This is the return flight on the itinerary, friend lives in SLC. Friend checks in 7:30, prints boarding pass that says:
boarding starts at 9:15
departure at 10:05
and at the very top of his boarding pass it says “doors close 10 minutes prior to departure.”
Friend rolls up to the gate at 9:31 and they tell him they closed the gate because they made the last call for him and he wasn’t in the boarding area at 9:15. Plane departs 9:43 without him, 22 minutes early.
Airline says he was there at 9:35 and they close the door 30 mins prior to departure. Boarding pass says they close the door 10 minutes before departure. Friend says doesn’t matter he was there at 9:31.
I found some folks with similar situations here but still not sure what the outcomes were. Seems to me like they violated the agreement printed on the ticket, regardless of their “30 minute policy”
Friend of mine is on a flight MAN-PHL, it’s an American Airlines flight. This is the return flight on the itinerary, friend lives in SLC. Friend checks in 7:30, prints boarding pass that says:
boarding starts at 9:15
departure at 10:05
and at the very top of his boarding pass it says “doors close 10 minutes prior to departure.”
Friend rolls up to the gate at 9:31 and they tell him they closed the gate because they made the last call for him and he wasn’t in the boarding area at 9:15. Plane departs 9:43 without him, 22 minutes early.
Airline says he was there at 9:35 and they close the door 30 mins prior to departure. Boarding pass says they close the door 10 minutes before departure. Friend says doesn’t matter he was there at 9:31.
I found some folks with similar situations here but still not sure what the outcomes were. Seems to me like they violated the agreement printed on the ticket, regardless of their “30 minute policy”
Mar 28, 2019, 6:10 pm
#2
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"Doors close" doesn't really sound like airline terminology. Does he have a picture? I have a couple Delta domestic BP's on me and they say "Boarding ends 15 minutes prior to departure time."
Okay, well I guess they do use that terminology in the CoC -- https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...f-carriage.jsp
Just sounds a little off to me -- like something you'd see on a ticket to a show or event instead of boarding an airplane.
Okay, well I guess they do use that terminology in the CoC -- https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...f-carriage.jsp
Just sounds a little off to me -- like something you'd see on a ticket to a show or event instead of boarding an airplane.
Last edited by xliioper; Mar 28, 2019 at 6:26 pm
Mar 28, 2019, 6:11 pm
#3
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The gate deadline for international is T-30. Doors close at T-10. But, that has nothing to do with whether your friend was at the gate at the required time. If he blew that deadline, he is SOL and properly offloaded. No EC 261/2004 (EUR 600) or DOT (400% of segment fare to a maximum of $1,350) compensationThat leaves the question of whether your friend was at the gate by T-30. He apparently has told you 09:31 and AA says it was after 9:35. That is a factual dispute.
AA's system will have logged, to the second, when your friend was off-loaded. So, that is going to be hard to beat.
Once the gate deadline has passed, any standbys processed, the flight will be closed and depart because there is no particular reason to wait around. Thus, unimportant that the push was early.
AA's system will have logged, to the second, when your friend was off-loaded. So, that is going to be hard to beat.
Once the gate deadline has passed, any standbys processed, the flight will be closed and depart because there is no particular reason to wait around. Thus, unimportant that the push was early.
Mar 28, 2019, 7:28 pm
#4
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The gate deadline for international is T-30. Doors close at T-10. But, that has nothing to do with whether your friend was at the gate at the required time. If he blew that deadline, he is SOL and properly offloaded. No EC 261/2004 (EUR 600) or DOT (400% of segment fare to a maximum of $1,350) compensationThat leaves the question of whether your friend was at the gate by T-30. He apparently has told you 09:31 and AA says it was after 9:35. That is a factual dispute.
AA's system will have logged, to the second, when your friend was off-loaded. So, that is going to be hard to beat.
Once the gate deadline has passed, any standbys processed, the flight will be closed and depart because there is no particular reason to wait around. Thus, unimportant that the push was early.
AA's system will have logged, to the second, when your friend was off-loaded. So, that is going to be hard to beat.
Once the gate deadline has passed, any standbys processed, the flight will be closed and depart because there is no particular reason to wait around. Thus, unimportant that the push was early.
Mar 28, 2019, 7:39 pm
#5
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I fly these TATL routes twice a month and you never want to blow the gate deadline. I once had a lounge agent send me to the wrong terminal and gate in PHL and I nearly got locked out. I do my own gate research these days and always show up five minutes before published boarding time.
Mar 28, 2019, 8:46 pm
#6
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Unfortunately, AA habitually starts boarding super early. I've arrived at "Boarding time" and found entire flights boarded once (HNL) and up to group 7 of 9 another time (PVG).
Here's a thread about the topic:
Stop the early boarding (D0) stupidity
Here's a thread about the topic:
Stop the early boarding (D0) stupidity
Mar 28, 2019, 9:11 pm
#7
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it seems to me that the language in their conditions of carry only allows AA to “reassign” his seat, not void his ticket. They will have to prove, even if he was late to the gate, that his seat was reassigned to a standby and the flight checked in full. It doesn’t say “if you are at the gate later than T-30, your reservation is completely void.”
That said, did they void is ticket, or let him take another flight?
***********************
- 30 minutes before departure for international flights
The doors close 10 minutes before departure and you will not be allowed to board once the doors close.
Mar 28, 2019, 9:19 pm
#8
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Unfortunately, AA habitually starts boarding super early. I've arrived at "Boarding time" and found entire flights boarded once (HNL) and up to group 7 of 9 another time (PVG).
Here's a thread about the topic:
Stop the early boarding (D0) stupidity
Here's a thread about the topic:
Stop the early boarding (D0) stupidity
What matters is if the passenger was present at T-30 or earlier.
Mar 28, 2019, 9:27 pm
#9
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If his seat has been reassigned, there might not be more space on that flight, but clearly it seems to say he can still board before the 10 minutes.
That said, did they void is ticket, or let him take another flight?
***********************
The doors close 10 minutes before departure and you will not be allowed to board once the doors close.
That said, did they void is ticket, or let him take another flight?
***********************
- 30 minutes before departure for international flights
The doors close 10 minutes before departure and you will not be allowed to board once the doors close.
HOWEVER, IN ACCORDANCE WITH RULE 60(F) (RESERVATIONS), ALL PASSENGERS MUST PRESENT THEMSELVES AT THE LOADING GATE, FOR BOARDING AT LEAST TEN MINUTES BEFORE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE.
Mar 28, 2019, 9:36 pm
#10
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IANAL, but if the boarding pass says T-10, that should apply rather than the T-30 that *we* *know* applies to international flights. Of course, it would be better if the passenger had proof of being at the gate by T-30.
Since this was an AA flight from the EU (currently) to the USA, the passenger has a choice between claiming under the EC261 regulations or USA DOT rules (which require an IDB to be a situation in which the flight was oversold, so the OP should try to find whether the flight departed with empty seats and whether nonrevs/standbys were boarded in the end).
Since this was an AA flight from the EU (currently) to the USA, the passenger has a choice between claiming under the EC261 regulations or USA DOT rules (which require an IDB to be a situation in which the flight was oversold, so the OP should try to find whether the flight departed with empty seats and whether nonrevs/standbys were boarded in the end).
Mar 28, 2019, 9:45 pm
#11
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IANAL, but if the boarding pass says T-10, that should apply rather than the T-30 that *we* *know* applies to international flights. Of course, it would be better if the passenger had proof of being at the gate by T-30.
Since this was an AA flight from the EU (currently) to the USA, the passenger has a choice between claiming under the EC261 regulations or USA DOT rules (which require an IDB to be a situation in which the flight was oversold, so the OP should try to find whether the flight departed with empty seats and whether nonrevs/standbys were boarded in the end).
Since this was an AA flight from the EU (currently) to the USA, the passenger has a choice between claiming under the EC261 regulations or USA DOT rules (which require an IDB to be a situation in which the flight was oversold, so the OP should try to find whether the flight departed with empty seats and whether nonrevs/standbys were boarded in the end).
Mar 28, 2019, 9:46 pm
#12
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I would say that it is absolutely relevant because OP's friend was denied boarding for "not being in the boarding area at 9:15" which was the published start of boarding. We all know that AA is not JAL, and if the aircraft had began boarding on time, 9:31 (which is not 9:35 aka T-30, by the way) would have not been an issue.
Mar 28, 2019, 9:52 pm
#13
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voided ticket, charged $303 for rebooking and offered nothing. Ive searched the international CoC and the only mention of boarding is here:
HOWEVER, IN ACCORDANCE WITH RULE 60(F) (RESERVATIONS), ALL PASSENGERS MUST PRESENT THEMSELVES AT THE LOADING GATE, FOR BOARDING AT LEAST TEN MINUTES BEFORE SCHEDULED DEPARTURE.
Personally, I'm not sure that that sounds right that that ticket should have been voided with the presented facts.
Mar 28, 2019, 9:53 pm
#14
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Mar 28, 2019, 9:55 pm
#15
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I would say that it is absolutely relevant because OP's friend was denied boarding for "not being in the boarding area at 9:15" which was the published start of boarding. We all know that AA is not JAL, and if the aircraft had began boarding on time, 9:31 (which is not 9:35 aka T-30, by the way) would have not been an issue.
The 9:15 boarding time is irrelevant - that's not what he or she was actually denied boarding for. When the aircraft began boarding doesn't matter. What matters is if the pax was present at the T-30 cutoff or not.
Whether the pax was at the gate at 9:31 vs 9:35 is a he said / she said argument, unless OP's friend has conclusive proof.