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-   -   Strange denial of boarding on MAN-PHL (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1963018-strange-denial-boarding-man-phl.html)

dflanagin Mar 29, 19 7:09 pm


Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 30944681)
I am a bit confused by the text message content. It says that the agent stated "you need to go past border patrol " - was this interaction at the gate or at check in? If at the gate, they must have passed through border control - or were they saying that the passengers needed to return to passport control to leave?

Going to court won't end the nonsense - it may get your issue resolved, but wouldn't rely on it having any impact on what AA does in the future

the incident was at the boarding gate. He showed up to board at 9:31, and the agents very quickly told him he was late and escorted him out. In the UK you donít stamp out; but you obviously stamp in. Heís an American, so when they bumped him, they had to escort him through the passport check.

MADPhil Mar 29, 19 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 30944681)
I am a bit confused by the text message content. It says that the agent stated "you need to go past border patrol " - was this interaction at the gate or at check in? If at the gate, they must have passed through border control - or were they saying that the passengers needed to return to passport control to leave?

That is rather odd because there is no passport control to leave the UK and since they were still in the UK there should have been none to return from the gate.

moondog Mar 29, 19 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by dflanagin (Post 30944566)
We definitely will not stop, I strongly believe we are right, and that AA has to make some
serious adjustments to their CoC. I kind of hope we go all the way to court, maybe it will end this kind of nonsense.

Im still trying to get my friend in here, but for now here
a text he sent me:

I think your friend has a slam dunk case in the US, but I'm guessing the EU option would be more lucrative, even if he ends up giving away 30% of his settlement to a third party. There is a great thread about this on the BA forum.

dflanagin Mar 29, 19 7:18 pm


Originally Posted by MADPhil (Post 30944702)
That is rather odd because there is no passport control to leave the UK and since they were still in the UK there should have been none to return from the gate.

right, but they were essentially removing him from the airport because his ticket was no longer valid, and so the only way out of the airport would be how arriving passengers come in. They arenít going to send him through the security check backwards in order to remain in the UK, they are going to escort him through passport control. MAN airport is a strange series of windowed hallways, this does make sense in context to this (and probably most) airports

MADPhil Mar 29, 19 7:23 pm


Originally Posted by dflanagin (Post 30944715)
right, but they were essentially removing him from the airport because his ticket was no longer valid, and so the only way out of the airport would be how arriving passengers come in. MAN airport is a strange series of windowed hallways, this does make sense in context to the airport, he just doesnít know airport jargon so well

That's true, they don't mix arriving and departing passengers but in some cases they do mix in transit passengers so it would be like LHR where you have to be escorted out. I don't think you would have to talk to Border Force though.

dflanagin Mar 29, 19 7:25 pm


Originally Posted by MADPhil (Post 30944734)
That's true, they don't mix arriving and departing passengers but in some cases they do mix in transit passengers so it would be like LHR where you have to be escorted out. I don't think you would have to talk to Border Force though.

Yeah I think they were just telling him what was happening, like I said it was his first flight departing an international airport ever, im not sure he knew what was happening to him at all. Also with a US passport im sure they wanna check the validity just in case.

jliehr Mar 29, 19 8:30 pm


Originally Posted by Betterthanyou (Post 30942945)
INAL, but a BP is not a contract and not a guarantee. The contract is the COC you agree to when you purchase the ticket, so arguing about what the BP says may not hold as strongly as one may think.

From the CoC

https://www.aa.com/i18n/footer/condi...p?locale=en_HK

CHECK-IN TIMES

The times shown on this ticket or itinerary/receipt if applicable are the departure times of the aircraft.

ryan182 Mar 29, 19 9:47 pm

10 vs 15 vs 30 minutes, whats printed on BPs, whats in the CoCs etc aside, the question that someone in leadership at AA should be asking themselves is: why did this happened? I cannot understand what would make the AA GAs think this was a good idea as it makes no sense whatsoever. To be clear, I'm not doubting the OP or his friend as aacargo/flighaware clearly show they left the gate at 9:43AM which would IME mean they finished boarding and buttoned up before that since you cannot close the door/push until everyone is seated etc.

Putting aside the legal stuff, which again I'm of the view that AA needs to get out their checkbook, this is a completely unforced error on AAs part and one that has no upside for them. Pushing 23 minutes early on a MAN-PHL flight doesn't free up the gate for another AA flight or allow the GAs/ground crew to go work another AA flight at MAN...there's exactly nothing from the series of events that occured which result in a net positive to AA. On the other hand they created bad will with the OP/Friend/others who hear about the situation, financial liability under EU regulations and all they ended up with was a few minutes early to the gate in PHL.

MSPeconomist Mar 29, 19 9:56 pm

Maybe the GA wanted to leave work early or at least have alonger break?

jliehr Mar 29, 19 10:30 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 30945013)
Maybe the GA wanted to leave work early or at least have alonger break?

Or put a non-rev friend in the offloaded pax place?

JDiver Mar 29, 19 11:16 pm

@dflanagin AA Customer Service contacts from Elliott (hint: send a detailed but brief snailmail): https://www.elliott.org/company-cont...ican-airlines/

SpeedAdvantage Mar 29, 19 11:43 pm

This is not from AA but would like to share a story on PR in MNL airport to Doha. I arrive in the gate area about T-25 with most of passengers already boarded. As the agent scanned my boarding pass another agent suggested to her companion to offload the remaining passengers so they can close the door early. Not sure what was I thinking but I intervened and told them they can't do that to the remaining passengers unless it is already T-10. The agent fires back that the new cutoff rules is T-20 instead of T-10. I politely pointed to them that T-10 is printed in the boarding pass and that they should correct what is printed if the company is enforcing new cutoff rules for boarding. I know it's none of my business if they offload the remaining passengers but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

eqeqeqx Mar 30, 19 5:03 am


Originally Posted by SpeedAdvantage (Post 30945155)
This is not from AA but would like to share a story on PR in MNL airport to Doha. I arrive in the gate area about T-25 with most of passengers already boarded. As the agent scanned my boarding pass another agent suggested to her companion to offload the remaining passengers so they can close the door early. Not sure what was I thinking but I intervened and told them they can't do that to the remaining passengers unless it is already T-10. The agent fires back that the new cutoff rules is T-20 instead of T-10. I politely pointed to them that T-10 is printed in the boarding pass and that they should correct what is printed if the company is enforcing new cutoff rules for boarding. I know it's none of my business if they offload the remaining passengers but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good on you, and who knows, maybe you saved some other poor soul from getting denied boarding. +1 karma points to you.

Gadot Mar 30, 19 6:45 am

I have had similar experience but squeaked by. They told me the pilot wanted to get off early because of a storm he wanted to avoid. Whether it was true? But there was a lot of turbulence.

But that answer tops all else printed or not. If capt wants to go, he can and you have no recourse

dflanagin Mar 30, 19 6:46 am


Originally Posted by ryan182 (Post 30944991)
10 vs 15 vs 30 minutes, whats printed on BPs, whats in the CoCs etc aside, the question that someone in leadership at AA should be asking themselves is: why did this happened? I cannot understand what would make the AA GAs think this was a good idea as it makes no sense whatsoever. To be clear, I'm not doubting the OP or his friend as aacargo/flighaware clearly show they left the gate at 9:43AM which would IME mean they finished boarding and buttoned up before that since you cannot close the door/push until everyone is seated etc.

Putting aside the legal stuff, which again I'm of the view that AA needs to get out their checkbook, this is a completely unforced error on AAs part and one that has no upside for them. Pushing 23 minutes early on a MAN-PHL flight doesn't free up the gate for another AA flight or allow the GAs/ground crew to go work another AA flight at MAN...there's exactly nothing from the series of events that occured which result in a net positive to AA. On the other hand they created bad will with the OP/Friend/others who hear about the situation, financial liability under EU regulations and all they ended up with was a few minutes early to the gate in PHL.

This is the bottom line, yes. Thank you. AA needs to pay up, and potentially change whats printed on their boarding passes. "Gate closes 30 minutes prior to departure" seems like its their rule, so print it on there.
What is also infuriating is that my friend, and honestly most passengers, don't know EU regulations; they don't read the CoC, they don't understand airport/airline jargon. I wonder how often this happens and just results in net profit for AA all around. Offering the inevitable $200 eVoucher is insulting, and incurs no loss for the company.
I think their denials are only making it worse for them as well, because the responses have been using check-in time word salad like -

Our check-in times are in place to ensure an on-time departure, and ticket agents can no longer make adjustments to the computers 30 minutes before departure. Unfortunately, Mr. M* was not at the gate before this cut off.


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