Dave Noble

Premium economy is a premium cabin and , from accounts, a very profitable one. Premium Economy seats count towards the count of premium seats. Saying that the CEO is making a mistake in reducing premium seats , when the numbers of premium seats on the aeroplanes seem to be higher, is misleading. Adding premium seats into a high proftiable cabin actually seems like a good business move to me

The airline's aim is to make profits, not have too many seats in a cabin. That it is getting harder to get upgrades suggests that the airline is getting the number of seats required better.

boss315

dave_261

This thread has nothing to do with airline profitability or premium economy. This thread is about, and I quote, "is it getting harder to upgrade?"

There is no such thing as a Y to PE upgrade (today). There is such a thing as a Y to J upgrade. There are fewer J seats/plane than there used to be (and the number of widebodies is relatively unchanged). Thus, the answer to the question posed in this specific thread is "yes, it's harder to upgrade". Throw in what another poster mentioned that in a strong economy more business class seats get sold, and you have an even stronger correlation to fewer available upgrades.

Dave Noble

Within this thread a poster stated "other airlines are adding premium seats. Cheap ... Parker is takin' 'em away." - that is simply to do with premium seats and is , from what I can see an untrue statement

That there are fewer busines class and 1st class seats , indeed that seems quite true , but additional premium seats have been added, regardless of whether they arre the ones that you want. On the plus side, it is now cheaper to get a decent seat than it used to be when there was no premium economy

If people wanting to buy business class seats are able to reasonably do so , but getting one for points/systemwide upgrades is harder, seems that the airline is getting it right and not , as also suggested , "I don't see his model being sustainable."

Finding award/upgrade availability does seem harder on AA , especially confirmed at time of booking. Maybe AA will bring in the ability to actually upgrade to premium economy soon which could be a nice use of points for the fairly short transatlantic trips

SJOGuy

Absolutely, Dave Noble. I like my upgrades as much as anybody, but I get that AA would rather sell those seats. That's the sustainable model for them.

Erohnson

With a downturn in the economy this might not be such a bad idea after all...

NauticalWheeler

OP said they had a bunch of miles so possibly using miles + copay award which is treated the same as a SWU. That said, elites with either instrument would clear first.

audio-nut

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rossmacd

Not really, provided you pay cash for the seat you actually want from the outset.

dave_261

I'm going to cast my vote for 'most useless post of the day'. Good luck!

wetrat0

Not to mention, if there is a downturn in the economy all those people who are currently feeling flush enough to buy discount J are not going to suddenly switch to Basic Economy overnight, but they might start settling for PE. Which is exactly what's being added to planes...

I mean, I love an upgrade as much as anyone on these boards, but the business model has moved from outfitting planes with a number of J seats that is near the maximum J demand and then filling the empty seats with upgraders, to outfitting planes much closer to average J demand and pushing people to pay for their desired class of service. Whether you like it or not, Doug Parker's people understand Newsvendor models.

MarkOK

I thought I may have had a chance recently on a couple of flights because at T-100 hours there were half empty MCE sections and F sections. Ended up that F was full at check-in time and I was still 10 out of 24 on the upgrade list for 1100 mile long flights (so I doubt there were all that many golds caring to burn three stickers) (and, not sure why 24 people on the upgrade list, but MCE seats were being given away to nonrevs, and on one flight, three MCE seats were empty while the rest of coach was packed full -- are there elites not taking MCE for some reason)? In both cases, F was mostly full of foreign nationals likely connecting to F/J overseas flights.

But, on my way out of on the of the legs, I noticed the 738 was turning around in DFW to a South Caroline airport (greenville I think) and there was 1 person on the upgrade list and it cleared!! Don't know if I am just terrible luck or just fly the worse routes. But I am at 1 upgrade out of 22 eligible legs in the last 8 months (which was a meal-less, nut-less, non PDB <500 mile route).

But yeah, to echo some comments above -- the economy is good, planes are mostly full, F/J seats are selling well. -AND- AA's upgrade policy doesn't care how many/few upgrades anyone received in the past -- for each and every flight they give priority mostly based on EQDs. So I am sure there are a few high EQDs that are still getting decent upgrade rates, as well as perhaps some people on certain routes that have good F seats/elite ratios, but most ExPs (and especially below) are scrapping for crumbs and mostly coming up empty. I feel like the upgrade program is worthless for me -- would trade it wholly for just 1 or 2 confirmed at booking upgrade awards.

puchong

When AA uses spend as a criterion for determining upgrade priority, do they mean spend on AA alone or do they mean all spend on OneWorld carriers during the prior 12 months?

golfingboy

All. It’s based on your rolling 12 months EQDs.

Often1

With the economy on screech and more realistic pricing, especially for large corporate accounts, F/J/PE can be sufficiently reasonable as to take care of most of the available inventory. So, yes. One would expect that UG's are overall harder to come by. Whether you specifically will have a harder time depends on where you fit in the priority pecking order.