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I’m exp and I avg 60% plus domestic upgrades. I use swu upgrades internationally. My home airport is rdu and I’m 95% on upgrading to lhr But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane |
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 30852626)
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Originally Posted by Nuhusky
(Post 30852953)
I’m exp and I avg 60% plus domestic upgrades. I use swu upgrades internationally. My home airport is rdu and I’m 95% on upgrading to lhr But the argument by new York George that exp or ck don’t sit in y seats just isn’t accurate. We do sit in y and we suffer Leaving a job because of paid j vs y is kind of silly. A job is more than a few hours on a plane |
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 30852626)
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Originally Posted by bridge29
(Post 30852315)
If there's one thing we do know - it's that AA is run by beancounters who want to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of every flight, customer comfort or loyalty be damned. JFK-ZRH was moved to PHL. I have no doubt that this was a profitable route for AA out of JFK. But, they must have calculated that it could be more profitable from PHL which has little competition and more connecting flow.
FTs do not seem to understand Parker is not in the "appearance business." That doesn't sway his thinking. Now whether the moves he is making will be successful is another thing. The numbers so far trail his competitors but you can't just point to Oasis and say "that's it." It's probably due to a number of factors, including that operations seems to be one big mess and too many unhappy crew and front line staff. If there is a management change Oasis might be reversed. For now I don't see Parker forgoing millions in sunk costs just because on FT people are complaining. FT is a speck of the EXPs and CKs. Show me concrete evidence that AA is experiencing a material runoff off elites, particularly at the higher levels and I'll eat my words. |
Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
(Post 30845521)
Nor is there any evidence that EXPs and CKs are abandoning AA in droves. In fact, unless you can get another airline to status match as an EXP or CK you'd probably wouldn't want to leave AA. Would you really want to restart at the mid tier level at UA or DL?
Team Parker gutted AAdvantage and their elite program, destroyed their onboard catering, densified their fleet and cut the size of the F cabin in the belief that business travellers would have no alternatives because of reduced competition caused by massive industry consolidation. That was a bad long term bet in my opinion. Prior to deregulation when CAB limited competition and price, airlines competed on service and product to drive brand loyalty. AA is going to need that brand loyalty when the economy cycles down and planes aren’t so full. UA and DL have that figured out, but Team Parker does not. |
Originally Posted by enviroian
(Post 30839991)
Are these oasis configured planes only at a certain hub? Can’t say I’ve seen one at DFW.
Originally Posted by Nuhusky
(Post 30840049)
i think most of these planes are flying out of Miami, for now open to being wrong but...
Originally Posted by FAA1996
(Post 30840660)
The lack of underseat storage space and the missing dividers between the cabins really bother me as a mostly F passenger.
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Originally Posted by JohnFortWorth
(Post 30853965)
The answer to that question is “yes”. I’ve been EXP for the last decade and DFW based. I status matched late last year to DL Platinum and haven’t looked back. My upgrade percentage as a DL Plat has been much better so far than it was in my last year as EXP. DL employees are actually nice to their passengers and they don’t waste time hawking credit cards. DL only has one terminal at DFW, and it’s been updated. That’s a lot better than the ghetto of Terminal C and the PITA of trekking between terminals to get to your car at 1:30 in the morning. The entire DL experience leaves me with the impression they want my business, whereas AA makes it clear they just don’t care anymore. Team Parker gutted AAdvantage and their elite program, destroyed their onboard catering, densified their fleet and cut the size of the F cabin in the belief that business travellers would have no alternatives because of reduced competition caused by massive industry consolidation. That was a bad long term bet in my opinion. Prior to deregulation when CAB limited competition and price, airlines competed on service and product to drive brand loyalty. AA is going to need that brand loyalty when the economy cycles down and planes aren’t so full. UA and DL have that figured out, but Team Parker does not. I’ve changed programs four times in the past 20 years - DL-CO-US-AA and wouldn’t hesitate to take a status challenge with another airline. |
A number of flyers on FT saying they've left AA (and at the top levels) isn't conclusive evidence that there is any kind of run off. If in fact that occurs Parker and team will be toast. Personally I like to see it happen but I'm not convinced there is a run for the gates. There is based upon the financial results performance well below AA's two primary peers. The reasons? Probably varied, including AA not being all that up to par from an operations standpoint.
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
(Post 30855019)
A number of flyers on FT saying they've left AA (and at the top levels) isn't conclusive evidence that there is any kind of run off. If in fact that occurs Parker and team will be toast. Personally I like to see it happen but I'm not convinced there is a run for the gates. There is based upon the financial results performance well below AA's two primary peers. The reasons? Probably varied, including AA not being all that up to par from an operations standpoint.
When the CEO constantly deflects analyst or industry leader's questioning their poor performance from a worsening customer experience, I think there's more than enough room for healthy speculation that densification is hurting AA's revenue. It's always easier for Dougie to just say "Well... but... we're still catching DL". :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by AA100k
(Post 30854773)
I’ve changed programs four times in the past 20 years - DL-CO-US-AA and wouldn’t hesitate to take a status challenge with another airline. [/left]
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Originally Posted by AA100k
(Post 30854773)
I agree 100%. And if one can believe “leading economists” next year will begin a downturn in the economy - probably coinciding with the Oasis retrofits arriving in full force. I’ve changed programs four times in the past 20 years - DL-CO-US-AA and wouldn’t hesitate to take a status challenge with another airline. And this is my argument about the whole Oasis project. cost a lot of money to convert the fleet, and too much increase in capacity by the time economy goes south. |
Originally Posted by enviroian
(Post 30855177)
Why? Back in the old days you switched with status matches (as I did too) to other airlines because they offered something above and beyond the current airline. Now, they are all on the same playing field IE they are all crap. There's no where to go to. You think DL and UA folks are getting upgrades and redeeming their SWU equivalent at booking? Only the top tiers mean anything now and I'm not talking about DL diamond, UA 1K or EXP I'm talking about global services, CK and whatever Delta's invite only FFP is.
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So to anyone that knows. What is the seat pitch for Y-, Y+, PE, domestic and International J for AA, DL, and UA? Is anyone of them providing a better product particularly in Y?
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
(Post 30855405)
So to anyone that knows. What is the seat pitch for Y-, Y+, PE, domestic and International J for AA, DL, and UA? Is anyone of them providing a better product particularly in Y?
Pitch, Width AA 738 MAX F: 37, 21 Y: 30, 16.6-17.8 (non-MCE) DL A220 (maybe this one isn't a totally fair comparison) F: 36, 21 Y: 30-32, 18.6 DL 739 F: 37, 21 Y: 30-31, 17.2 (For a truly fair look, the DL 738's have 160 seats on them, vs the 172 on the AA 738s (MAX 8 included). UA 739 MAX F: 38, 20.5 Y: 31, 18 (UA's most dense 738s have 166 seats on board) The clear distinction in these numbers is the fact that DL is putting IFE in every seat back, nor are they packing as many people into similar frames. Tighter cabin seating and more stripped amenities (no IFE) clearly sends a sign to the customer that their comfort was not highly thought of when the airline considered the layout. |
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