Feb 22, 2019, 9:45 am
Last edit by: JDiver
Help with British Airways / BA and IB / Iberia Surcharge / YQ (AA award on BA or IB)
Please see here for the current thread.
Intra-European awards using BA have significantly lower carrier imposed charges; some members may find using AA or other partner transatlantic connecting to BA may be acceptable.
NOTE: Paying YQ may trigger a host of other taxes and fees otherwise not charged on awards that do not include carrier imposed surcharges such as YQ. Flights within the Americas are YQ exempt.
As this is still flying on an award, these carrier imposed surcharges do not qualify for EQM or EQD earning.
Be sure to read the oneworld and Other Airline (Partner) Awards info, rules 2014 on thread wiki for information on searching for and finding alternative flights or those not shown on aa.com, which airlines' websites can find those, etc.
Read more about BA Carrier Imposed Surcharges
Fuel Surcharge for AA award redemptions on BA are up - again.
Partner airline awards now bookable on AA.com (AB, AS, AY, BA, HA, HG, QF, RJ, US)
Does AA push most of its European Awards to BA to collect fuel surcharges?
Charts from TravelIsFree for the three alliances and how you will pay (or avoid) YQ: http://travelisfree.com/2014/04/15/m...surcharges-yq/
HELP DESK: MileSAAver / SAAver award questions, assistance
AA oneworld and Other Airline ("All Partner") Award information, rules (2015 on)
Originating a flight in the UK incurs an Air Passenger Duty, reduced for seats with less than 40" seat pitch (except those originating from originating in BFS / Northern Ireland, Scottish Highlands (INV) or Islands, and connections less than 24 hours do not incur UK Air Passenger Duty, though they do incur airport Passenger Service Charges). Separate topic, dealt with:
UK APD / Air Passenger Duty charged for UK departures (Master Thread); defines what the APD is in the wikipost.
Avoiding crazy UK "APD" taxes when transferring through LHR on separate tickets
*Note: BA now calls the YQ a "carrier imposed surcharge" after complaints about the so-called original "fuel surcharge" language. As of October 2017 BA seems to be calling the YQ an "Insurance and Security Surcharge".
ARCHIVE: Avoiding YQ Surcharge: AA award on BA / British (& Iberia - 2012-2016)
May 22, 2012, 11:05 pm
#46
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
The fact is that there are thousands of leisure travellers out there who have no idea that, when it comes to redeeming their miles on BA, they're going to be asked to pay outrageous fees. People should be made aware of this before they even join the loyalty program so they know that what their saving up for isn't a free ticket at all (because that's what they think it is). That way they can make an informed decision when choosing which program to collect miles for without being expected to read the fine print.
Do you object to AAdvantage members having to pay government-imposed taxes, duties, etc. when redeeming their miles? How many "leisure travellers" know about them?
May 22, 2012, 11:13 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: AA 1M
Posts: 31,475
Forced by whom? They're a UK company, and this is well known in the UK, which is why UK flyers don't use miles to redeem for free tickets - instead the use miles to upgrade purchased tickets. It's well understood, and it's the business model in their geo. Perhaps you mean Americans, who are used to a different model for miles redemption? Welcome to international business.
Welcome to the USA and to international business where one adapts to the surroundings.
Only in the US. In the UK and Europe, people don't expect free flights. And I'm still not sure why you think people that join AA's program, then have AA add BA as a redemption partner, should require that BA do something special. It's up to the buyer - caveat emptor. You don't want to pay BA YQ? Don't redeem on BA. What you want on AA isn't available? Make a decision - redeem on BA with YQ, or do your homework and search other OW partners.
May 22, 2012, 11:36 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,714
I'm not sure where you get that idea from but you're throwing around "facts" that are simply not true. Frequent flyers may be aware of this issue with BA but if you stopped a leisure traveller in any UK high street and asked them about awards and redemptions the vast majority would not be aware that "free" can really mean you still have to pay in excess of 50% of what the ticket costs.
Last edited by Stripy; May 22, 2012 at 11:57 pm
May 22, 2012, 11:45 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,714
Only in the US. In the UK and Europe, people don't expect free flights. And I'm still not sure why you think people that join AA's program, then have AA add BA as a redemption partner, should require that BA do something special. It's up to the buyer - caveat emptor. You don't want to pay BA YQ? Don't redeem on BA. What you want on AA isn't available? Make a decision - redeem on BA with YQ, or do your homework and search other OW partners.
May 23, 2012, 12:35 am
#50
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, MUCCI, Junior Jet Club.
Posts: 8,101
BA don't use "free flights" anywhere now, it's all about "reward" flights. And they make it pretty clear on the "About the Executive Club" pages on BA.com that you will have to pay taxes, fees and surcharges and that these will always have to be paid in cash.
Savvy BA fliers now use Avios more for upgrades rather than pure redemptions. E.g. I paid 35k and £4.90 ($8!) to upgrade a one way LHR-SIN from J to F the other week.
Savvy BA fliers now use Avios more for upgrades rather than pure redemptions. E.g. I paid 35k and £4.90 ($8!) to upgrade a one way LHR-SIN from J to F the other week.
May 23, 2012, 3:26 pm
#51
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Programs: AA EXP, UA Premier Plat, Alaska MVP Gold, HHonors Diamond, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,053
I thought you were. I thought your complaint was that AAdvantage members, who aren't BAEC members, were being defrauded. Are you not talking about AAdvantage members? Because BAEC members should certainly know this.
I'm not sure where you get that idea from but you're throwing around "facts" that are simply not true. Frequent flyers may be aware of this issue with BA but if you stopped a leisure traveller in any UK high street and asked them about awards and redemptions the vast majority would not be aware that "free" can really mean you still have to pay in excess of 50% of what the ticket costs.
You're seeing this very one dimensionally. My suggestions/criticisms of BA aren't just to protect Aadvantage members. I think that everyone (especially UK leisure travellers that use BA once or twice a year) should be made very aware of this. Once again, sorry, but your suggestion that this is all very well known and accepted (in general) in the uk/Europe is simply not true. You seem to be seeing this issue purely from a FT/Frequent flyer standpoint. Thats a very small population sample on which to base an argument.
In fact, here's the google search of BA's US site to show, press release by press release, what changes apply to the surcharge.
May 23, 2012, 6:52 pm
#52
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,473
And when we place the words "Deceptive" in front of the previous Google search terms, we get this plethora of sites.
Notice FT is the first listing (at least as of tonight).
http://www.google.com/search?client=...w=1093&bih=450
Notice FT is the first listing (at least as of tonight).
http://www.google.com/search?client=...w=1093&bih=450
May 23, 2012, 7:03 pm
#53
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,473
Or,
one could argue that by establishing a physical presence in the US, these foreign companies now fall under local laws.
Either way, YQs are deceptive.
If they weren't, why have them today?
If YQ are so above board, get rid of them and just lump them into the ticket price. What's BA afraid of? After all YQs date back to the days when airlines paid a commission to travel agents, and this was a sneaky way to reduce the "base fare" and thereby the amount of the commission paid.
Or we could have YQQ (seat cushion surcharge), YQX (staffing surcharge), YQW (aircraft tire surcharge). Why stop at fuel?
May 23, 2012, 8:26 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,714
That depends completely on whether you're talking about intra-europe or TATL. I've not met a single person that thinks they can get a completely free TATL ticket, even in economy. Not one. And most know they'll pay something for intra-europe but the YQ is small enough that they don't really perceive it as a problem.
How much more aware can BA make this than the press they put out, the changes to the web site, etc. when this took effect, and when the program changed to Avios and the redemption schedules changed? They've been VERY up front, and NONE of this information has been hidden from consumers of ANY program.
In fact, here's the google search of BA's US site to show, press release by press release, what changes apply to the surcharge.
How much more aware can BA make this than the press they put out, the changes to the web site, etc. when this took effect, and when the program changed to Avios and the redemption schedules changed? They've been VERY up front, and NONE of this information has been hidden from consumers of ANY program.
In fact, here's the google search of BA's US site to show, press release by press release, what changes apply to the surcharge.
Speaking as someone who lived the the UK (up until recently) for the best part of two decades I can assure you that your idea that no one thinks you get free (or close to free air travel) TATL is fundamentally wrong. There is a huge population of people who would be shocked to find that they can pay in excess of 50% of the ticket price when booking an award.
The fact is that airlines made a rod for their own back. They introduced the public to the idea of free flights in return for loyalty and then they took that perk away. They have only themselves to blame for any anger or backlash. You say that BA have advertised the YQ all over, well, have they advertised it as much as they used to advertise the free flights (in the good old days)? No, of course not. No airline is going to trumpet the fact that something they encouraged consumers to think of as free is now anything but.
Lastly, to reiterate something I've already said, everyone defending BA seems to be just seeing this from a regular flyers point of view. Do you really think that the average Joe reads the BAEC website? Regular flyers may well know all about YQ and how to use Avios for upgrades and not flights but I guarantee you that the huge majority who are sat in the back on a TATL flight will not have the slightest idea.
May 23, 2012, 9:16 pm
#55
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: aa
Posts: 212
Were the fuel surcharges came into being because fuel prices rose.
Conversely, when fuel prices drop, will they lower the surcharges ? What about Delta owning a refinery, do they get to double dip ?
may be legal, but yes this pax has walked away from using Avios to travel thru LHR.
Find a way to spend the Avios for domestic AA awards.
May 23, 2012, 9:36 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: AA 1M
Posts: 31,475
McDonalds has a presence in several countries, do you see them offering only American fare in all countries? I certainly saw different items in India.
How much more aware can BA make this than the press they put out, the changes to the web site, etc. when this took effect, and when the program changed to Avios and the redemption schedules changed? They've been VERY up front, and NONE of this information has been hidden from consumers of ANY program.
May 23, 2012, 10:05 pm
#57
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
By the way, this is the AA forum, not the Avios forum.
May 23, 2012, 10:14 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: AA 1M
Posts: 31,475
And when did you come to know of how high the YQ was?
May 24, 2012, 11:45 am
#60
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador, AA EXP
Posts: 2,704
NO, it is simply a matter of being honest and including fuel in the fare where it should be. Fuel is not an optional extra, but a basic cost of the service being sold. Planes do not fly without it. Seperating it and calling it a ''tax'' is nothing but F-R-A-U-D! and airlines should be prohibited by law from doing it. Hooray for Brazil!
What's next, advertise a $1 ticket but have a pilot surcharge, FA surcharge, jetway surcharge, lavatory surcharge, seat surcharge? And call them "taxes"?
And while it might be under "taxes and fees", the AA phone agents still call it a tax. When I inquire, they say it's imposed by the government.