Feb 22, 2019, 9:45 am
Last edit by: JDiver
Help with British Airways / BA and IB / Iberia Surcharge / YQ (AA award on BA or IB)
Please see here for the current thread.
Intra-European awards using BA have significantly lower carrier imposed charges; some members may find using AA or other partner transatlantic connecting to BA may be acceptable.
NOTE: Paying YQ may trigger a host of other taxes and fees otherwise not charged on awards that do not include carrier imposed surcharges such as YQ. Flights within the Americas are YQ exempt.
As this is still flying on an award, these carrier imposed surcharges do not qualify for EQM or EQD earning.
Be sure to read the oneworld and Other Airline (Partner) Awards info, rules 2014 on thread wiki for information on searching for and finding alternative flights or those not shown on aa.com, which airlines' websites can find those, etc.
Read more about BA Carrier Imposed Surcharges
Fuel Surcharge for AA award redemptions on BA are up - again.
Partner airline awards now bookable on AA.com (AB, AS, AY, BA, HA, HG, QF, RJ, US)
Does AA push most of its European Awards to BA to collect fuel surcharges?
Charts from TravelIsFree for the three alliances and how you will pay (or avoid) YQ: http://travelisfree.com/2014/04/15/m...surcharges-yq/
HELP DESK: MileSAAver / SAAver award questions, assistance
AA oneworld and Other Airline ("All Partner") Award information, rules (2015 on)
Originating a flight in the UK incurs an Air Passenger Duty, reduced for seats with less than 40" seat pitch (except those originating from originating in BFS / Northern Ireland, Scottish Highlands (INV) or Islands, and connections less than 24 hours do not incur UK Air Passenger Duty, though they do incur airport Passenger Service Charges). Separate topic, dealt with:
UK APD / Air Passenger Duty charged for UK departures (Master Thread); defines what the APD is in the wikipost.
Avoiding crazy UK "APD" taxes when transferring through LHR on separate tickets
*Note: BA now calls the YQ a "carrier imposed surcharge" after complaints about the so-called original "fuel surcharge" language. As of October 2017 BA seems to be calling the YQ an "Insurance and Security Surcharge".
ARCHIVE: Avoiding YQ Surcharge: AA award on BA / British (& Iberia - 2012-2016)
Jan 17, 2013, 10:21 am
#151
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,231
For all the regulation over in Europe, I'm really surprised the airlines have been able to get away with adding these surcharges onto "free" award tickets.
Jan 17, 2013, 10:27 am
#152
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
On ITA, you won't find "fuel" next to these surcharges, which is a change during the last few months. Nor will you find "fuel" on the AA website when discussing the surcharges that AA collects for BA and IB flights. Refer to the link in my signature. The regulation is coming from the US government, not Europe.
Jan 17, 2013, 11:01 am
#154
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
That's too bad. It links to a FlyerTalk post of mine that discusses why the references to "fuel" were dropped. Read it or not.
Jan 17, 2013, 9:01 pm
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,231
Originally Posted by Austinrunner:20067913
That's too bad. It links to a FlyerTalk post of mine that discusses why the references to "fuel" were dropped. Read it or not.
Jan 17, 2013, 10:20 pm
#156
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
The link still works.
Here it is in another format:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18835119-post17.html
Here it is in another format:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18835119-post17.html
Jan 18, 2013, 2:11 pm
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,231
Thanks, interesting.
What I meant was I have signatures turned off, so they don't show on the page. It's unnecessary clutter for the most part.
What I meant was I have signatures turned off, so they don't show on the page. It's unnecessary clutter for the most part.
Jan 18, 2013, 5:13 pm
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
And BA does charge fuel surcharges -- itself it says so at https://www.britishairways.com/trave...e/public/en_us
Fuel surcharge
British Airways applies a fuel surcharge on all flights to reflect the fluctuating price of worldwide oil.
The surcharge is based on flight duration and applies to all passengers, including children and infants travelling on British Airways operated international and domestic services.*
*In line with the fare rules, a refund of the fuel surcharge can be made on fully flexible tickets only with unused flights in your itinerary.
British Airways applies a fuel surcharge on all flights to reflect the fluctuating price of worldwide oil.
The surcharge is based on flight duration and applies to all passengers, including children and infants travelling on British Airways operated international and domestic services.*
*In line with the fare rules, a refund of the fuel surcharge can be made on fully flexible tickets only with unused flights in your itinerary.
Jan 18, 2013, 5:49 pm
#159
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
What AA collects is not a "fuel surcharge," regardless of what BA says. It's a plain surcharge from AA's point of view. Could not be clearer. And because this is the AA forum, no more need be said.
Mar 23, 2013, 8:14 am
#160
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
AA Marks-Up BA YQ-What to Do?
I could use some suggestions on how to deal with fees AA is charging for flights operated by BA.
I'm booking a Business Saver award and the part of the itinerary at issue involves 2 BA flights. I've chased down details of the fees and my issue is that AA is charging more in YQ fees than BA charges for the same flights on the same dates.
The BA fees themselves are curious since BA charges less in YQ fees for the two flights booked together as a connection (thru LHR) than the fees would be for each of the same flights added together. Even though I booked the two flights together as a connection though LHR, the charge from AA seems to be the bigger sum of the fees for two flights, instead of the cheaper total BA charges for the two-flight connection.
Confusing? Yep and tough to describe. I have the award on hold and I was on the phone with a variety of AA folks for most of two hours. In fairness to them, front line AA people do not seem to have either the training or access to information on the system to field questions like this, and I know of no way I can speak directly to the rate desk.
And AA doing this may not even be wrong-I don't know of any rule requiring AA to limit YQ and other fees to what BA would charge, though that seems the essence of their intent.
Any ideas on how to proceed?
I'm booking a Business Saver award and the part of the itinerary at issue involves 2 BA flights. I've chased down details of the fees and my issue is that AA is charging more in YQ fees than BA charges for the same flights on the same dates.
The BA fees themselves are curious since BA charges less in YQ fees for the two flights booked together as a connection (thru LHR) than the fees would be for each of the same flights added together. Even though I booked the two flights together as a connection though LHR, the charge from AA seems to be the bigger sum of the fees for two flights, instead of the cheaper total BA charges for the two-flight connection.
Confusing? Yep and tough to describe. I have the award on hold and I was on the phone with a variety of AA folks for most of two hours. In fairness to them, front line AA people do not seem to have either the training or access to information on the system to field questions like this, and I know of no way I can speak directly to the rate desk.
And AA doing this may not even be wrong-I don't know of any rule requiring AA to limit YQ and other fees to what BA would charge, though that seems the essence of their intent.
Any ideas on how to proceed?
Mar 23, 2013, 8:31 am
#161
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
For two flights that appear to not be connections (therefore transit) though LHR, are you considering the appropriate APD for flights originating in the UK?
Mar 23, 2013, 8:58 am
#162
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
And of course this only considers the comparison of BAs own fees since in my case it's a connection thru LHR whether booked thru BA or AA.
Mar 23, 2013, 3:10 pm
#163
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Some places, one will indeed find "fuel surcharge" on the invoicing - BA, for one, on a multi-city trip (no APD, connecting on UK only):
Code:
Taxes/fees/charges Government, authority and airport charges Per adult Customs User Fee - USA USD5.50 Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA USD17.20 Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA USD17.20 Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA USD5.00 Immigration User Fee - USA USD7.00 Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA USD7.50 Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom USD28.83 Italy Passenger Service Charge - Italy USD1.31 Security Bag Charge - Italy USD1.90 Council City Tax - Italy USD6.03 Embarkation Tax - Italy USD10.92 Security Charge - Italy USD3.71 Departure Charge - Spain USD24.60 Security Tax - Spain USD4.53 Passenger Facility Charge USD13.50 Total government, authority and airport charges* USD154.73 > More information British Airways fees and surcharges Per adult Fuel Surcharge** USD856.00 Total British Airways fees and surcharges USD856.00 > More information Total taxes, fees and surcharges per person USD1,010.73 *Government and/or airport taxes are refundable, however some countries will apply a Value Added Tax, Sales Tax or equivalent, which will only be refunded on fully flexible tickets. **In line with the fare rules, a refund of fuel surcharge can be made on fully flexible tickets only with unused flights in your itinerary. (My underscoring.)
Mar 23, 2013, 5:08 pm
#164
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Some places, one will indeed find "fuel surcharge" on the invoicing - BA, for one, on a multi-city trip (no APD, connecting on UK only):
Code:
Taxes/fees/charges Government, authority and airport charges Per adult Customs User Fee - USA USD5.50 Transportation Tax(Departure) - USA USD17.20 Transportation Tax(Arrival) - USA USD17.20 Animal & Plant Health User Fee (Aphis) - USA USD5.00 Immigration User Fee - USA USD7.00 Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee - USA USD7.50 Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom USD28.83 Italy Passenger Service Charge - Italy USD1.31 Security Bag Charge - Italy USD1.90 Council City Tax - Italy USD6.03 Embarkation Tax - Italy USD10.92 Security Charge - Italy USD3.71 Departure Charge - Spain USD24.60 Security Tax - Spain USD4.53 Passenger Facility Charge USD13.50 Total government, authority and airport charges* USD154.73 > More information British Airways fees and surcharges Per adult Fuel Surcharge** USD856.00 Total British Airways fees and surcharges USD856.00 > More information Total taxes, fees and surcharges per person USD1,010.73 *Government and/or airport taxes are refundable, however some countries will apply a Value Added Tax, Sales Tax or equivalent, which will only be refunded on fully flexible tickets. **In line with the fare rules, a refund of fuel surcharge can be made on fully flexible tickets only with unused flights in your itinerary. (My underscoring.)
I am comparing the charges listed on ITA as YQ and on BA.com as "Fuel Surcharge" and when pricing the connection, the fees thus listed are the same on both sites. So too for the single flight departing from London-the fees on the two sites are the same and show the same YQ/Fuel surcharge as each other, plus of course the high APD.
So I think I am talking only about YQ/Fuel Surcharge, and it is higher for the single flight out of LHR than it is for the two flights connection using the same flight out of LHR. So we have BA imposing a higher fuel charge for a single flight (Flight A) than if you take a two flight connection that includes that single flight (Flight A).
As I mentioned above, that is just the BA anomaly. The broader point, and my question (which titled this thread before it was moved here) referred to AA marking-up fees and charging more than BA charges for the same flights.
Last edited by Mountain Trader; Mar 23, 2013 at 5:18 pm
Mar 23, 2013, 6:29 pm
#165
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
No worries, no confusion - but yep, we are clubbed with fees (figuratively) and it appears AA might be making a bit of margin as well. But we often hear the refrain "these are not fuel surcharges" - yet BA calls them that.
Sorry if I confused the issue.
I am comparing the charges listed on ITA as YQ and on BA.com as "Fuel Surcharge" and when pricing the connection, the fees thus listed are the same on both sites. So too for the single flight departing from London-the fees on the two sites are the same and show the same YQ/Fuel surcharge as each other, plus of course the high APD.
So I think I am talking only about YQ/Fuel Surcharge, and it is higher for the single flight out of LHR than it is for the two flights connection using the same flight out of LHR. So we have BA imposing a higher fuel charge for a single flight (Flight A) than if you take a two flight connection that includes that single flight (Flight A).
As I mentioned above, that is just the BA anomaly. The broader point, and my question (which titled this thread before it was moved here) referred to AA marking-up fees and charging more than BA charges for the same flights.
I am comparing the charges listed on ITA as YQ and on BA.com as "Fuel Surcharge" and when pricing the connection, the fees thus listed are the same on both sites. So too for the single flight departing from London-the fees on the two sites are the same and show the same YQ/Fuel surcharge as each other, plus of course the high APD.
So I think I am talking only about YQ/Fuel Surcharge, and it is higher for the single flight out of LHR than it is for the two flights connection using the same flight out of LHR. So we have BA imposing a higher fuel charge for a single flight (Flight A) than if you take a two flight connection that includes that single flight (Flight A).
As I mentioned above, that is just the BA anomaly. The broader point, and my question (which titled this thread before it was moved here) referred to AA marking-up fees and charging more than BA charges for the same flights.