HND / Haneda slots: AA prelim gets DFW, LAX routes Summer 2020 (update)
May 16, 2019, 7:30 pm
#32
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Link to View from the Wing article by Gary Leff
US Government Awards 12 New Tokyo Haneda Flights to United, Delta, American and Hawaiian
by Gary Leff on May 16, 2019
Based on a new agreement between the US and Japan, the US Department of Transportation gets to allocate 12 day time slot pairs for service between the US and Tokyo’s close-in Haneda airport starting with the 2020 summer travel season.
Currently US airlines have just 5 slot pairs so this is a huge increase. Today American has LAX, Delta has LAX and Minneapolis, United has San Francisco and Hawaiian has Honolulu.
The DOT has issued its preliminary ruling, and here’s what they’ve granted:
None of these awards are final — yet. Airlines get to object to the DOT’s plan by May 30. Then they get to respond to each other by June 10. And then the DOT has to consider those comments and explain either how they’re going to change their plan or why they aren’t persuaded by the objections.
by Gary Leff on May 16, 2019
Based on a new agreement between the US and Japan, the US Department of Transportation gets to allocate 12 day time slot pairs for service between the US and Tokyo’s close-in Haneda airport starting with the 2020 summer travel season.
Currently US airlines have just 5 slot pairs so this is a huge increase. Today American has LAX, Delta has LAX and Minneapolis, United has San Francisco and Hawaiian has Honolulu.
The DOT has issued its preliminary ruling, and here’s what they’ve granted:
- American Airlines: Dallas/Fort Worth; Los Angeles
- Delta Air Lines: Seattle; Detroit; Atlanta; Portland, Ore.; Honolulu
- Hawaiian Airlines: Honolulu
- United Airlines: Newark, N.J.; Chicago O’Hare; Washington-Dulles; Los Angeles
May 16, 2019, 7:47 pm
#33
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,781
PDX over LAS? I have to believe AA has a leg to stand on here. The argument that it doesn't offer any connections doesn't make sense when the DOT acknowledges that it's the fifth largest destination from Japan, not even mentioning all the JL feed through HND from other destinations.
May 16, 2019, 7:50 pm
#34
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
AA has no leg to stand on. Delta has served PDX-NRT since it merged with Northwest in 2010, and Northwest had served that route since 2004. So 15 years of successful service. American, meanwhile, can barely support Tokyo service from Chicago and can't serve it from New York - they've failed there. Chicago and New York are larger markets than Vegas and benefit from large AA feeder operations. If American fails at serving Tokyo from its hubs, how on earth does anybody think they could serve it from Vegas, a non-hub? AA has failed in Tokyo everywhere except from Dallas and apparently Los Angeles. Delta has shown commitment in Portland. No contest.
May 16, 2019, 7:53 pm
#35
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,580
PDX over LAS? I have to believe AA has a leg to stand on here. The argument that it doesn't offer any connections doesn't make sense when the DOT acknowledges that it's the fifth largest destination from Japan, not even mentioning all the JL feed through HND from other destinations.
AA press release: American Airlines Welcomes Tentative Approval of Additional Service at Tokyo Haneda International Airport
We'll see I guess. But it seems like AA is OK with the routes they got.
May 16, 2019, 8:32 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVPG100K, UA Gold, IHG Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec
Posts: 320
PDX over LAS? I have to believe AA has a leg to stand on here. The argument that it doesn't offer any connections doesn't make sense when the DOT acknowledges that it's the fifth largest destination from Japan, not even mentioning all the JL feed through HND from other destinations.
May 17, 2019, 4:16 am
#40
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 524
I think AA is happy and generally cautious with capacity. They are going to move services vs promise new services like UA.
AA definitely wanted DFW#1. LAX is a bit of a bonus. AA had 1x LAX pre HND and kept 2 to have both HND and NRT. Some of that capacity supports LAS connections. Plus loss of ORD and downgauge to 787s vs 772s. DFW#2 is nice so they can move out of NRT but hard to argue for over new service. Also worth noting that there is a good amount of military traffic that flies AA that aren't originating from downtown Tokyo. Some might prefer NRT. There will probably be a JL Okinawa flight for NRT timed for US connections. LAS probably works better on JL metal with a lot of Japan point of sale. AA put it in last as a bit of a throwaway where they would do it if offered but primarily to reduce the number of slots Delta and UA would receive.
Also it would be interesting to see if DL keeps all it's slots after it's ICN hub is running. Losing MNL and SIN is about a plane worth of connections. Olympics will be a good short term demand boost but what happens after that? AA would be in a good spot to argue for DFW#2 if DL cancels or down gauges one of their 6 HND services. MSP on a 772 seems like overkill.
On LIT - HND is not a380 compatible and the hourly A380 shuttle will remain at NRT.
AA definitely wanted DFW#1. LAX is a bit of a bonus. AA had 1x LAX pre HND and kept 2 to have both HND and NRT. Some of that capacity supports LAS connections. Plus loss of ORD and downgauge to 787s vs 772s. DFW#2 is nice so they can move out of NRT but hard to argue for over new service. Also worth noting that there is a good amount of military traffic that flies AA that aren't originating from downtown Tokyo. Some might prefer NRT. There will probably be a JL Okinawa flight for NRT timed for US connections. LAS probably works better on JL metal with a lot of Japan point of sale. AA put it in last as a bit of a throwaway where they would do it if offered but primarily to reduce the number of slots Delta and UA would receive.
Also it would be interesting to see if DL keeps all it's slots after it's ICN hub is running. Losing MNL and SIN is about a plane worth of connections. Olympics will be a good short term demand boost but what happens after that? AA would be in a good spot to argue for DFW#2 if DL cancels or down gauges one of their 6 HND services. MSP on a 772 seems like overkill.
On LIT - HND is not a380 compatible and the hourly A380 shuttle will remain at NRT.
May 17, 2019, 8:06 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO / WAS / NYC
Programs: American Express got a hit man lookin' for me
Posts: 4,595
AA markets its product aggressively within Japan -- moreso than either UA or DL.
May 17, 2019, 8:23 am
#42
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,372
That makes sense. AA is historically has had a much weaker presence in Japan and across Asia. United bought PanAm's extensive Pacific division in the 1980s, and Delta assumed NW's NRT hub and extremely strong Asia operation when it took NW over.
May 17, 2019, 9:54 am
#44
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,145
May 17, 2019, 10:04 am
#45
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVPG100K, UA Gold, IHG Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec
Posts: 320
AA can market its product aggressively in Japan all it wants, but that doesn't change the fact that Japanese people will generally prefer to fly on a Japanese airline given the option.
