Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > American Airlines | AAdvantage
Reload this Page >

First class nine time coach price many routes, three time DL

First class nine time coach price many routes, three time DL

Reply

Old Feb 17, 19, 9:06 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,314
First class nine time coach price many routes, three time DL

I cant seem to find a thread in this. But lately AA seems to have gone INSANE with First Class pricing.
For example I'm seeing MIA-Tpa at over $900 when the plane has only four fc seats. The coach fare is typically $120.
I flew from MIA to Chicago... AA wanted $1,000+ in FC united $366.
I need to fly MIA to SAT... im seeing $1,500 to $2050 in April! Everyone else is $400-$600.
Literally every rout this year AA has been as much as nine times coach and three times United and Delta.
And of course... there are NEVER system wide's available.
I first thought the revenue mgt software was broken. But this has been going on for weeks... any ideas what is going on?
Cigar
cigarman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 19, 9:26 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: PHL
Programs: US/AA EXP Hilton Diamond
Posts: 169
I've noticed similar. If it's a connection, I just book whomever is cheaper. I'd rather fly on DL anyway.
AANYC1981 and TXguy like this.
jdanton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 19, 10:04 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, UA Silver, Hyatt Diamond, M/SPG Plat Prem, National Exec Elite, mlife platinum
Posts: 3,503
People fly to MIA in March/April for spring break, cruises, conferences, vacations... last year I flew SDF-MIA in early April and it was $1000 for an economy roundtrip. Looks significantly cheaper this year actually but I bought 2-3 weeks out last year.

That said...

As for your flights, I checked MIA-SAT and saw $749-1299 roundtrip in first class, nonstop, all through April. Only a couple dates were $1900-2000. https://www.google.com/flights/#flt=...;sc:b;sd:1;t:f

For MIA-TPA, there are one-way first class fares $235-290 every day in March and April. https://www.google.com/flights/#flt=...;sd:1;t:f;tt:o

Not sure what the fuss is. I'm one of those who have switched to buying F much of the time because the extra cost for an I fare is worth avoiding the risk of not clearing the upgrade.

tldr- you might want to up your searching game. Try Google Flights?
bse118 and JonNYC like this.
platbrownguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 19, 10:40 pm
  #4  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,314
I haven't posted in years because of the way the internet has become. I knew there would be those attack posts... "up your searching game".

That's not the point. The point is the fares are crazy. If you'd like to price the flight I need its april 28th. Google shows $1434 one way... MIA-SAT. I note the fares are equally crazy to AUS and IAH. United is less than $400. Delta is about $500.
And yes the $200 first class fares can be found on MIA-TPA. I fly it every week. The POINT is they NEVER rose beyond $250 even walk up... let alone to nearly a GRAND for a 38 minute flights. And this started occurring about last October.
Something very wrong is going on with AA. I cant decide if they really think they can sell FC seats at that price or if it is a move to actually allow EX plats upgrades as no one is going to pay say a grand for a 38 minute first class ticket.

I would be interested in thoughts of why the fares are so high, not criticism of me.
cigarman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 19, 10:48 pm
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 26,993
Originally Posted by cigarman View Post
I haven't posted in years because of the way the internet has become. I knew there would be those attack posts... "up your searching game"...
You've GOT to be kidding.
Beltway2A, AAdamE, dfw88 and 10 others like this.
JonNYC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 17, 19, 10:52 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, UA Silver, Hyatt Diamond, M/SPG Plat Prem, National Exec Elite, mlife platinum
Posts: 3,503
Originally Posted by cigarman View Post
I would be interested in thoughts of why the fares are so high, not criticism of me.
But the fares aren't that high.

AA operates one nonstop a day MIA-SAT. No other airline flies the route nonstop. For all of April and May, that flight is $625-675 in First Class. Every day. Except April 27-30 and May 11, when it's your quoted $1484. You happen to be traveling on one of those dates. That means your example is the textbook definition of an outlier. Which is why I responded to your post to point out your misinformation, not to attack you.

To me, the $1484 fares on five specific dates across 2 months is a clear sign that AA anticipates higher demand on those dates and will plausibly sell some or all of those seats at that cost. Maybe it won't. But there are only three seats left for sale on April 27 and only one seat on April 30 -- which is pretty uncommon for flights that far in advance -- so it looks like AA just might know what it's doing here. If I were you I'd buy the $232 coach ticket and set an EF alert for "I" availability and then pay the $300-400 to upfare if it pops up, assuming that's worth it to you on a 3-hour flight.

LOL to the notion that this post or my previous one is an "attack" btw.
IAHtraveler likes this.
platbrownguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 12:03 am
  #7  
LBJ
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 13,147
Pretty easy to find flights on DL where the lower fare buckets are zeroed out and there is only J/F inventory and hence full F/J fares. To say you can't find this on competitors is silly.

LBJ is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 1:50 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by cigarman View Post
I haven't posted in years because of the way the internet has become. I knew there would be those attack posts... "up your searching game".

That's not the point. The point is the fares are crazy. If you'd like to price the flight I need its april 28th. Google shows $1434 one way... MIA-SAT. I note the fares are equally crazy to AUS and IAH. United is less than $400. Delta is about $500.
And yes the $200 first class fares can be found on MIA-TPA. I fly it every week. The POINT is they NEVER rose beyond $250 even walk up... let alone to nearly a GRAND for a 38 minute flights. And this started occurring about last October.
Something very wrong is going on with AA. I cant decide if they really think they can sell FC seats at that price or if it is a move to actually allow EX plats upgrades as no one is going to pay say a grand for a 38 minute first class ticket.

I would be interested in thoughts of why the fares are so high, not criticism of me.
Ticket prices are based on supply and demand. Sometimes the interaction of those components can lead to higher prices.

However, I think there is a solution for you that is pretty straightforward. Fly Delta or United.
rumboj is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 4:54 am
  #9  
2019 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Silver/MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz 5* Gold
Posts: 5,731
I would look at how full the F cabin is on these flights. It's possible demand is high and AA has sold out of all the cheaper fare buckets, while DL and UA have not, especially if AA is nonstop and the others are not. If AA has only one or two seats to sell they will generally list them at a full fare F price, which can be very high.

IME AA's F prices can be higher, lower, or in the middle relative to UA and DL. In general, they are higher, but not by a lot.
Stripe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 7:07 am
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,314
Look this is completely missing the point. This is an apples to doughnuts comparison, this is a walk up next day fare verses one 70+ days out. My point was not that other airlines don't have crazy fares. There is something going on beyond supply and demand. I'll try and restate my central point which is in the title of the thread, below in a new reply.
cigarman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 7:33 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,591
Originally Posted by cigarman View Post
Literally every rout this year AA has been as much as nine times coach and three times United and Delta.
You searched every route that AA flies? I am impressed.

--------

Meta-comment:

I will never understand these threads. "Here's a few cherrypicked dates where the airline has some out-of-whack pricing. How can this cruel airline get away with it?"

If AA can sell seats at those prices, more power to them. They are a profit-seeking company afterall. The consumer has choices - don't have to buy those tickets. There are competitors.
bse118 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 7:53 am
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,314
Redirecting the conversation.
What I am NOT concerned with is supply and demand. Nor am I concerned with days where it is cheaper that I do not have to fly.
What I am trying to discuss are these points and the relationship with AA pricing in the last six months. Something has changed, at least in south florida. I am trying to see if it is universal... thus being able to decide is it time to fire AA. Has Doug Parker jumped the shark?

Truths:
1) There used to me significantly lower maximum fares caps for first class in relationship to coach. The title of the thread. For example, I fly often MIA-TPA and back. The walk up coach was always capped at $259 and First Class was never more than $333. The advance purchase fare typically was $100 for coach and $230 for first class. A ratio of a bit more than 2-1. Now take three days from now... you can book coach for $68 and FC for $933. or more than 13 times coach. Yes of course I picked the most dramatic example. That's the point. When you can buy 13 coach seats for the price of one First class... does the airline really expect to sell that seat? AND its a 38 minute flight. That's about $25 a minute! Who would pay that?
2) AA has cut frequency on the Mia- Tpa route. Now the 737s don't get the $933 fare, but the A319s do. I think its because they have only two rows of first class. Is the frequency cut and widely increasing the cap of FC price a strategy to deter westward flying from Miami? The same thing has happened going to DFW, the frequency has been cut and prices raised. It seems like they want us to only fly through charlotte. The fares typically are half going through charlotte verses Dallas. So I wonder if this is a squeeze the Miami market thing and charge these crazy prices because you think you have a monopoly.
3) It is common the airline that *thinks* it is the most on time, best airline will charge more. That has been Delta the last few years. Delta has made double the profits of AA and been significantly more reliable. So if AA suddenly started charging more than Delta... one would wonder why? I know a full 40% of my flights this year on AA have had mechanicals. I would think they would have to price well below delta. But lets look at another route I fly often. Mia to DCA. AA cut the frequency and eliminated flying to FLL. Just using April 28th since that was the date I used for SAT. AA has nine nonstops on a Saturday. Ok. The early morning is $725. The other eight are $1496! The maximum on this route used to be $666. That's an easy number to remember. I paid it a lot. Now look at the ratio to coach fare. Coach is about $250 all day. So First class is roughly SIX times coach.
Ok so it is a non stop. But when you look at the Delta one stop connection in FC they are $560-$610. AA's is slightly more around $50 at same time periods. This is fascinating for two reasons. First it presumes people would prefer to fly AA connection on a less reliable carrier verses a more reliable carrier for more money. I wonder if that is based on its going to or from an AA hub and they figure that the Frequent flyer program can milk those extra dollars through loyalty. (more on that in a minute). The "old pricing" six months ago the nonstop would be about $666 and the connection $450-$550 with advance. Now the non stop is $900 more? Verses the old $150. Again I think the pricing model has changed.
Look at ATL-DCA the same day. Coach $116 both airlines. First class $250-$350. Delta from its hub is charging about $150 more for First class. Not $900. This seems to be an AA thing OR maybe it a MIAMI thing. That's what Id like to figure out. Like My SAT flight. AA is 2 two three times the price 70+ days out with empty aircraft. Why would they predict those planes full and NOT Delta and UAL. And this includes all the connections. Not talking non stop only.
4) Systemwide. I feel like AA has targeted me... I NEVER see systemwide anymore available. If I see it is is invariable one leg on the 6am flight or the 10pm flight, but never both legs. Again, I wonder if this is across the board or... is there a target on Miami? I would sure like to know if others feel they literally turned off systemwide at purchase six months ago.
5) I have a third theory... Credit card miles. AA sells more than all other airlines, almost double delta. I wonder if they have become a "miles" airline, they don't sell via cash, they sell via mile redemption. Those insane first class prices would make sense IF they were fake to get you to burn full miles. Like those "suggested manufactures pricing".

Again, I would like to hear others experience on FC pricing and Systemwide. I can do without the criticism and "I'll never get over". If you feel that way no need to chime in... your post count isn't money or an indicator of status. Something is going on with pricing. I see it more and more. 14 times the coach ticket on a 38 minute flight... gravity doesn't make sense at that point. Either AA has some new crazy revenue model they haven't tweaked correctly, or they are putting a full on squeeze on Miami. Or they are idiots. My vote is greedy... as seen by the systemwide never redemption.

I look forward to intelligent conversation.

Cigar
cigarman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 8:00 am
  #13  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,314
Thanks for the intelligent comment. Yes I look at that. I am a seven million mile flyer. I was the first president of flyer talk's talkboard. What I am discussing is exactly that. Apples to apples. Same number of connections, same emptiness if you will. Its clear that AA has decided its worth more. AT least out of South Florida. And that's what I'm trying to see via flyertalk. Is this a targeted captive market move via AA, are you experiences different? OR has Doug parker finally gone too far and convinced himself AA is better than delta! I mean the guy has a history of being very wrong. Remember he said AA stock would be $60 by the end of last year... and it dropped to $30.

So... that's the question. I'm seeing a trend where every time I go to buy a ticket AA has gone from maybe $50 more to WAY more.
Thanks Cigar
cigarman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 8:05 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CHS
Programs: Starriott PP, UA 1K, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,805
They are obviously selling them, so the price isn't too much

If they were not selling the seats and they all went to upgrades, you bet they would lower the price....

For another point - I fly CHS-VER
I can fly UA and it is roughly $850 for business CHS-IAH-MEX and then turbo prop on aeromar from MEX-VER.
AA is $5400 from CHS-CLT-MEX in business class and then interjet from MEX-VER

Both are roughly $600 for economy

Last edited by Hipplewm; Feb 18, 19 at 8:19 am
Hipplewm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 19, 8:08 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Deep In The Heart of Northeast Texas Ski Country
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by cigarman View Post
Redirecting the conversation.
What I am NOT concerned with is supply and demand. Nor am I concerned with days where it is cheaper that I do not have to fly.
What I am trying to discuss are these points and the relationship with AA pricing in the last six months. Something has changed, at least in south florida. I am trying to see if it is universal... thus being able to decide is it time to fire AA. Has Doug Parker jumped the shark?

Truths:
1) There used to me significantly lower maximum fares caps for first class in relationship to coach. The title of the thread. For example, I fly often MIA-TPA and back. The walk up coach was always capped at $259 and First Class was never more than $333. The advance purchase fare typically was $100 for coach and $230 for first class. A ratio of a bit more than 2-1. Now take three days from now... you can book coach for $68 and FC for $933. or more than 13 times coach. Yes of course I picked the most dramatic example. That's the point. When you can buy 13 coach seats for the price of one First class... does the airline really expect to sell that seat? AND its a 38 minute flight. That's about $25 a minute! Who would pay that?
2) AA has cut frequency on the Mia- Tpa route. Now the 737s don't get the $933 fare, but the A319s do. I think its because they have only two rows of first class. Is the frequency cut and widely increasing the cap of FC price a strategy to deter westward flying from Miami? The same thing has happened going to DFW, the frequency has been cut and prices raised. It seems like they want us to only fly through charlotte. The fares typically are half going through charlotte verses Dallas. So I wonder if this is a squeeze the Miami market thing and charge these crazy prices because you think you have a monopoly.
3) It is common the airline that *thinks* it is the most on time, best airline will charge more. That has been Delta the last few years. Delta has made double the profits of AA and been significantly more reliable. So if AA suddenly started charging more than Delta... one would wonder why? I know a full 40% of my flights this year on AA have had mechanicals. I would think they would have to price well below delta. But lets look at another route I fly often. Mia to DCA. AA cut the frequency and eliminated flying to FLL. Just using April 28th since that was the date I used for SAT. AA has nine nonstops on a Saturday. Ok. The early morning is $725. The other eight are $1496! The maximum on this route used to be $666. That's an easy number to remember. I paid it a lot. Now look at the ratio to coach fare. Coach is about $250 all day. So First class is roughly SIX times coach.
Ok so it is a non stop. But when you look at the Delta one stop connection in FC they are $560-$610. AA's is slightly more around $50 at same time periods. This is fascinating for two reasons. First it presumes people would prefer to fly AA connection on a less reliable carrier verses a more reliable carrier for more money. I wonder if that is based on its going to or from an AA hub and they figure that the Frequent flyer program can milk those extra dollars through loyalty. (more on that in a minute). The "old pricing" six months ago the nonstop would be about $666 and the connection $450-$550 with advance. Now the non stop is $900 more? Verses the old $150. Again I think the pricing model has changed.
Look at ATL-DCA the same day. Coach $116 both airlines. First class $250-$350. Delta from its hub is charging about $150 more for First class. Not $900. This seems to be an AA thing OR maybe it a MIAMI thing. That's what Id like to figure out. Like My SAT flight. AA is 2 two three times the price 70+ days out with empty aircraft. Why would they predict those planes full and NOT Delta and UAL. And this includes all the connections. Not talking non stop only.
4) Systemwide. I feel like AA has targeted me... I NEVER see systemwide anymore available. If I see it is is invariable one leg on the 6am flight or the 10pm flight, but never both legs. Again, I wonder if this is across the board or... is there a target on Miami? I would sure like to know if others feel they literally turned off systemwide at purchase six months ago.
5) I have a third theory... Credit card miles. AA sells more than all other airlines, almost double delta. I wonder if they have become a "miles" airline, they don't sell via cash, they sell via mile redemption. Those insane first class prices would make sense IF they were fake to get you to burn full miles. Like those "suggested manufactures pricing".

Again, I would like to hear others experience on FC pricing and Systemwide. I can do without the criticism and "I'll never get over". If you feel that way no need to chime in... your post count isn't money or an indicator of status. Something is going on with pricing. I see it more and more. 14 times the coach ticket on a 38 minute flight... gravity doesn't make sense at that point. Either AA has some new crazy revenue model they haven't tweaked correctly, or they are putting a full on squeeze on Miami. Or they are idiots. My vote is greedy... as seen by the systemwide never redemption.

I look forward to intelligent conversation.

Cigar
This all boils down to one thing...AA thinks it can make money on the fares it is charging. If you feel the fare is to high book on UA or DL. No one is handcuffing you to AA. AA is there to make money for Wall Street and that is all. It does not care about you.
hotelboy is online now  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread