AA 735 man to phl cancelled 7 Feb 2019 - pilot removed for alcohol
Feb 7, 2019, 4:56 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Bonvoy titanium
Posts: 537
Feb 7, 2019, 7:45 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ/MGA
Programs: AA 1MM Lifetime Gold, AA Platinum, WS Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 7,607
He will stay in jails for a while.
Here's a link:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...rport-15798175
Here's a link:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...rport-15798175
Feb 7, 2019, 7:56 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Bonvoy titanium
Posts: 537
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...312.1532881156
Feb 7, 2019, 9:03 pm
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
A Delta pilot showed up drunk a couple of weeks ago. I guess it's time to put an interlock device in the flight deck. I have no sympathy for addicts who don't seek help.
Feb 8, 2019, 12:41 am
#24
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere between AMS and ANR
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, United Platinum Premier, AF/KLM Platinum
Posts: 266
!
Feb 8, 2019, 6:55 am
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
15,000 miles and eu comp. personally I don’t think 15,000 miles is near sufficient
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...312.1532881156
Feb 8, 2019, 7:14 am
#26
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHL
Programs: AA - Plat, HHonors - Diamond, IHG - Plat, Marriott - Gold, National - Exec, Amtrak - Select, NEXUS
Posts: 1,075
I get it and I know I'm drifting into OMNI-land, but that's the attitude that drives addicts to hide their behavior. I'm lucky that my only real addictions are to nicotine and caffeine. I do, however, drink alcohol very infrequently and very moderately as I have recognized signs of addiction tendencies in my past use of alcohol.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
Feb 8, 2019, 7:33 am
#27
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
I get it and I know I'm drifting into OMNI-land, but that's the attitude that drives addicts to hide their behavior. I'm lucky that my only real addictions are to nicotine and caffeine. I do, however, drink alcohol very infrequently and very moderately as I have recognized signs of addiction tendencies in my past use of alcohol.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
No sympathy for his act, but compassion for the man, just like I have for the CEO. For the pilot, at 62, his life has just drastically changed, in ways he never imagined.
Backing away from OMNI-land-I, too, would be interested to see what AA's response will be to EU delay compensation claims for those affected.
Feb 8, 2019, 8:43 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rolling Lakes Yacht Club
Posts: 4,985
I get it and I know I'm drifting into OMNI-land, but that's the attitude that drives addicts to hide their behavior. I'm lucky that my only real addictions are to nicotine and caffeine. I do, however, drink alcohol very infrequently and very moderately as I have recognized signs of addiction tendencies in my past use of alcohol.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
The nicotine addiction support community is a multi-billion dollar industry and nicotine use did not impair my ability to contribute to society. (Clean 10+ years after a course of Chantix.)
Caffeine addiction is common and accepted by society and only slightly inhibits my ability to function. For example, if I wake up early and drive without having coffee, I am less alert than if I had coffee first.
"I'm not an addict and I don't need help" --> "I have no sympathy for addicts that do not seek help"
becomes
"I'm an addict and I need help" --> "You've been an addict that didn't seek help for how long? (Throws book at addict)"
No addict seeks help when their addiction is first developed, because addicts all think that they "can handle it" and "I'm not really an addict." Denial is a key aspect of addiction. That;s why most addicts do not seek help until it is well too late and it all comes crashing down (aka "rock bottom" as described friends of Bill W).
This is why society has determined that criminal punishment is the proper penalty, to force some responsibility on the addict. However, since addiction is a medical issue - its an affliction, not a disease - at its root, this is only a means of accomplishing the ends desired (protecting society and forcing the addict to participate in some sort of treatment even if unwilling). Of course, an addict has to accept treatment and many just go through the motions and continue their addiction behaviors (even if not using) immediately after completing treatment.
Also, imagine you work at any career into your 60s and are an addict. You know that reporting your addiction will take you out of your profession for an extended period of time, and there is no guarantee you will ever be allowed to practice it again.
What is the upside (as perceived through the addict's eyes, not yours) to self-reporting when that is guaranteed to completely upset your life? It is a terrible Catch-22 with no obvious solution.
Without any evidence, I suspect that the other pilot reported Capt. BAC since he was taken from the flight deck - and that's the most likely way these sort of issues get reported.
Feb 8, 2019, 8:44 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,691
The other FCM would also hopefully have made a call to the APA's Professional Standards committee, or equivalent, for follow-up (assuming the APA has one like ALPA does).
Feb 8, 2019, 11:35 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 588
Absolutely not excusing this pilots behavior, but has it been confirmed he was in fact intoxicated? The reason, the UK, and especially MAN has a reputation for the authorities preying on flight crew. It is so pervasive, it's actually discussed off the record during international ground school. Again, not defending the pilot, if he was drunk, he needs to go, but many flight crews have been harassed about drinking, when they have in fact not been.