Who gets downgraded first? Aircraft swap 738 -> A319
Jan 29, 2019, 9:52 am
#16
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,451
A few months ago I was on the early AM BOS-LAX flight, normally operated by an LAA 321 with 16 F seats. I bought an L fare at T-2 days and applied a BXP1 to confirm an upgrade into C at booking. The next day (well inside of T-24 hours at this point), I got a call from AA offering $400 for an involuntary downgrade due to an equipment swap. I declined and the agent thanked me for my time and moved on. So either an EXP on an instrument upgrade was high enough on the list to not be auto-downgraded, or the fact that my seat (1F) existed on both the old and new equipment prevented me from being thrown out of F.
Now, the kicker was...I wasn't at a computer at the time, and I did not think to ask the agent what type of airplane was swapped in. I was suspecting an A319 (every other domestic plane has as many F seats as an LAA 321, or so I thought), in which case Y was an absolute no go for a transcon. Turns out it was an A321T, with the J cabin sold as Y! I felt like a bit of an idiot for turning down $400 to still get a flat bed and a BOB breakfast sandwich without thinking it through, but oh well, I appreciated the extra room that F on that plane got me over J.
Now, the kicker was...I wasn't at a computer at the time, and I did not think to ask the agent what type of airplane was swapped in. I was suspecting an A319 (every other domestic plane has as many F seats as an LAA 321, or so I thought), in which case Y was an absolute no go for a transcon. Turns out it was an A321T, with the J cabin sold as Y! I felt like a bit of an idiot for turning down $400 to still get a flat bed and a BOB breakfast sandwich without thinking it through, but oh well, I appreciated the extra room that F on that plane got me over J.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:08 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
Had it happen to me once years ago exactly as described by OP, but at the airport...
This is exactly why I avoid the "disappearing rows" on equipment that is likely to get swapped (E170/175, A319/320) and try to stay in the first two rows of F on everything else. There are some gotchas in MCE/exit rows as well.
Agree you should politely but firmly hold the line on reaccomodation options to the extent you can be flexible--give them alternative times/airports that work for you and/or HUCA. Your preference may differ, but I'd rather get an acceptable alternative locked in up-front than try to get a fare-difference or other compensation after the trip.
Re: "Did AA really sell 8 paid F seats?"--probably not unless it's a particularly high-demand route or travel day (e.g., holiday travel season, flights to a special event like the Super Bowl, flights ex-DC airports when Congress is breaking for recess, etc.). I seem to recall they usually hold one or more for revenue (e.g., last-minute full-fare travelers, check-in buy-up offers, etc.) and that's what usually goes last in the "battlefield upgrade" scrum...
cheers!
This is exactly why I avoid the "disappearing rows" on equipment that is likely to get swapped (E170/175, A319/320) and try to stay in the first two rows of F on everything else. There are some gotchas in MCE/exit rows as well.
Agree you should politely but firmly hold the line on reaccomodation options to the extent you can be flexible--give them alternative times/airports that work for you and/or HUCA. Your preference may differ, but I'd rather get an acceptable alternative locked in up-front than try to get a fare-difference or other compensation after the trip.
Re: "Did AA really sell 8 paid F seats?"--probably not unless it's a particularly high-demand route or travel day (e.g., holiday travel season, flights to a special event like the Super Bowl, flights ex-DC airports when Congress is breaking for recess, etc.). I seem to recall they usually hold one or more for revenue (e.g., last-minute full-fare travelers, check-in buy-up offers, etc.) and that's what usually goes last in the "battlefield upgrade" scrum...
cheers!
Jan 29, 2019, 10:32 am
#18
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,314
Once this happened to me LIH-LAX, got a call a few days in advance (I might have been on an award, which is why they called me). I refused to accept any changes, expecting a fight at the airport. Turns out, the issue was dead-heading pilots who elected to take another flight once nothing shook loose (at least, that's what the GA said).
Surprised with ljgordon's comment that YUP is irrelevant; I thought it was definitely relevant re: being able to demand an F seat. Difference in fares I understand, but I though being able to get accomodated in J on another flight was something else (and SOL on YUP). Screen shot advice is solid.
Surprised with ljgordon's comment that YUP is irrelevant; I thought it was definitely relevant re: being able to demand an F seat. Difference in fares I understand, but I though being able to get accomodated in J on another flight was something else (and SOL on YUP). Screen shot advice is solid.
Jan 29, 2019, 10:54 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,545
any downgrade or other irrops entitles all passengers in discounted booking codes C, I, D to rebook onto other flights in business class even if the inventory shows only J1 D0 I0 C0.
any agent that advises original booking code must be avail on new flights during irrops is just being a d.
and certainly not following any corporate instruction to screw over inconvenienced premium cabin passengers.
move along to a fresh agent.
and if you have luggage checked, a last agressive option at the gate is to ask for a cancel/refund and tell that agent that you expect your bag.
just might be enough headache w D0 to have him move along to the next passenger.
you can always say nevermind if the AA agent calls your bluff.
any agent that advises original booking code must be avail on new flights during irrops is just being a d.
and certainly not following any corporate instruction to screw over inconvenienced premium cabin passengers.
move along to a fresh agent.
and if you have luggage checked, a last agressive option at the gate is to ask for a cancel/refund and tell that agent that you expect your bag.
just might be enough headache w D0 to have him move along to the next passenger.
you can always say nevermind if the AA agent calls your bluff.
Jan 29, 2019, 3:16 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 387
I had a similar recent experience on a SAN-DFW flight. I was sitting at the gate when I realized I couldn't bring up my digital boarding pass. The gate agent apologized for the mix up and gave me a $300 voucher, a window exit row seat in coach, and made sure I got double EQM. I was satisfied.
Jan 29, 2019, 6:14 pm
#22
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott BonVoy Titanium Elite, Marriott LT Plat.
Posts: 1,717
In my experience, the people with assigned seats in rows that are no longer F/J get downgraded.
I had kept upgrades before while a revenue F in the row behind me ended up in Y simply because his row was no longer F. I have seen this often enough that I think this is a computer default. They may manually interfere for a CK - but I think that's about it.
I used to fly a route a fair bit that was operated by a 319 while they went from 3 to 2 rows - and you never knew what aircraft config they had the next day. It didn't take long to learn that picking a seat in the 1st two rows avoided downgrades. I kept my (upgraded) seat in Row 2 while Marco Rubio seemed slightly confused, but sat down in the first row of coach.
I had kept upgrades before while a revenue F in the row behind me ended up in Y simply because his row was no longer F. I have seen this often enough that I think this is a computer default. They may manually interfere for a CK - but I think that's about it.
I used to fly a route a fair bit that was operated by a 319 while they went from 3 to 2 rows - and you never knew what aircraft config they had the next day. It didn't take long to learn that picking a seat in the 1st two rows avoided downgrades. I kept my (upgraded) seat in Row 2 while Marco Rubio seemed slightly confused, but sat down in the first row of coach.
I'm glad that wasn't the case on my 788 DFW-SFO flight two weeks ago. At 24 hr. check-in, I was surprised to notice that window 7 seat (mini-J cabin) was not displayed on the seating map. All seats were unavailable but my paid J (first) indicators were displayed still. Called CS and was told that the new aircraft had PE and not to worry. It wasn't until I was enroute to the airport T-2 hrs. that one last seat was displayed as available (bulkhead window). I selected it and that was that. Maybe I was just the last person that needed to be assigned that seat. Who knows.
Jan 29, 2019, 6:28 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,231
Surprised with ljgordon's comment that YUP is irrelevant; I thought it was definitely relevant re: being able to demand an F seat. Difference in fares I understand, but I though being able to get accomodated in J on another flight was something else (and SOL on YUP). Screen shot advice is solid.
Further, I’m pretty certain that the fare structures have changed, and the YUP type of fare that is being discussed no longer even exists in a similar form. It used to be more clearly spelled out in the fare rules that it was an “economy fare with upgrade” or similar language. Now I think you have to go into the routing rules (not even visible on AA.com to my knowledge) and it may say “economy sell-up”, but that is much more open to interpretation IMHO.
Nknetheless, there have been handfuls of reports of the $300 downgrade comp, so perhaps it’s a sign that AA is taking this more seriously and treating them more fairly. But i’ll continue to document the fare differentials, thank you.
Feb 13, 2019, 8:15 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: AA EXP. HH DIAMOND.
Posts: 224
Just adding a data point AA864 today went from A321 to A320. Got a call 5 hours prior if I would downgrade from J to Y for $300 in comp. Was upgraded T-28 which seems like the first batch up upgrades flight went from J7 to J1 right then and seat map was 12 of 16 open until then
was #1 on UG list and cleared to boot!
was #1 on UG list and cleared to boot!