Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
Jan 2, 2019, 6:56 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
I can't really blame them as your requested routing is...if I was to be charitable, ridiculous
What they booked is still a bit absurd but at least it doesn't backtrack
What they booked is still a bit absurd but at least it doesn't backtrack
Jan 2, 2019, 7:12 pm
#4
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Olde Dominion
Programs: DL Silver - uh huh!
Posts: 948
I’m confused - what is a fraudulent ticket in the context of this thread?
If an airline offers it and allows you to book it (assuming it’s not an error or mistake fare of some kind), and you intend to fly it, how is it fraud?
If an airline offers it and allows you to book it (assuming it’s not an error or mistake fare of some kind), and you intend to fly it, how is it fraud?
Jan 2, 2019, 7:12 pm
#5
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Yes. If anything, AA should be asking you to compensate them for the hours of agent time spent working on your wacky itinerary. How many hours have you spent with agents after every schedule change, depriving them of working with other customers? It would surely be a lot less if your itinerary was limited to a couple segments.
Jan 2, 2019, 7:36 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,239
I don't think I'd call what the OP did "fraudulent" in the criminal sense but I also don't think AA, or any airline, would consider that routing to be intentionally bookable so falls under the "technical failure or mistake, including but not limited to a fare filing error, computer error or third-party error (either human or mechanical)." section. Its one thing to add on an extra segment or two, not something I'd do but I can understand why some BA folks might do that, but what the OP did or rather attempted to do is just beyond the pale. There's absolutely no rational reason to fly that routing other than to game the system, an extra segment here or there is unlikely to be noticed but the OP went for the high score and got caught then had the temerity to request compensation...just wow.
Jan 2, 2019, 7:42 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 136
Yes. If anything, AA should be asking you to compensate them for the hours of agent time spent working on your wacky itinerary. How many hours have you spent with agents after every schedule change, depriving them of working with other customers? It would surely be a lot less if your itinerary was limited to a couple segments.
From what I can tell, this fare in particular has been offered since 2015 which was booked directly on the aa.com website.
I can understand equipment and airport slot changes but why does AA need to significantly overhaul it? I've never seen any other carrier make as significant, or as frequent changes as AA has over a 7 month period. While some are slight changes (+/- 20 minutes), some are hours / frequency changes and in almost all cases, completely different flight numbers.
If AA didn't overhaul it, reservations staff wouldn't need to rebook (almost) every segment.
Jan 2, 2019, 7:56 pm
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Thanks for replying but I respectfully disagree.
From what I can tell, this fare in particular has been offered since 2015 which was booked directly on the aa.com website.
I can understand equipment and airport slot changes but why does AA need to significantly overhaul it? I've never seen any other carrier make as significant, or as frequent changes as AA has over a 7 month period. While some are slight changes (+/- 20 minutes), some are hours / frequency changes and in almost all cases, completely different flight numbers.
If AA didn't overhaul it, reservations staff wouldn't need to rebook (almost) every segment.
From what I can tell, this fare in particular has been offered since 2015 which was booked directly on the aa.com website.
I can understand equipment and airport slot changes but why does AA need to significantly overhaul it? I've never seen any other carrier make as significant, or as frequent changes as AA has over a 7 month period. While some are slight changes (+/- 20 minutes), some are hours / frequency changes and in almost all cases, completely different flight numbers.
If AA didn't overhaul it, reservations staff wouldn't need to rebook (almost) every segment.
Jan 2, 2019, 8:00 pm
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Thanks for replying but I respectfully disagree.
From what I can tell, this fare in particular has been offered since 2015 which was booked directly on the aa.com website.
I can understand equipment and airport slot changes but why does AA need to significantly overhaul it? I've never seen any other carrier make as significant, or as frequent changes as AA has over a 7 month period. While some are slight changes (+/- 20 minutes), some are hours / frequency changes and in almost all cases, completely different flight numbers.
If AA didn't overhaul it, reservations staff wouldn't need to rebook (almost) every segment.
From what I can tell, this fare in particular has been offered since 2015 which was booked directly on the aa.com website.
I can understand equipment and airport slot changes but why does AA need to significantly overhaul it? I've never seen any other carrier make as significant, or as frequent changes as AA has over a 7 month period. While some are slight changes (+/- 20 minutes), some are hours / frequency changes and in almost all cases, completely different flight numbers.
If AA didn't overhaul it, reservations staff wouldn't need to rebook (almost) every segment.
I used to be able on an UA award tkt to Europe throw in a few < 24 hr overnighters to checkout some places. No more, heck UA started charging for what they consider extra stops, and in some cases wouldnt even allow a very slight indirect routing
IMO you should be thrilled they allowed you to put back what you originally had and Im surprised they allowed that
fwiw , I love it when someone can put it any of US3 , but after being on 3 different AA planes 320,319,763 I cant understand why anyone would want to even get on 1 AA flight, now JetBlue I can fully understand
Jan 2, 2019, 8:11 pm
#12
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangkok, Thailand. No longer Palm Coast, FL though still exiled, again, from the Bay Area.
Programs: Only the good ones
Posts: 5,153
Ahhh, for the good old days of MR'ing. 9 segment USAir FC SFO-FPT (loved that PHL-DCA/BWI 86 mile segment for the minimum 500 x 3 earn) for bmi and LH award miles and status jackpots; SFO-JFK-NRT RT's for the extra EQM's and RDM's for little or no extra cost; aa.com almost always gave me SFO-DFW-MIA-DFW-ZRH for my Euro trips. Sadly (well maybe not so sad) all gone now. Your routing was a disaster waiting to happen with potential IRROPS, misconnects and possible luggage issues. All of which cost money to solve. Keep your expectations in check.
Jan 2, 2019, 8:37 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,235
I'm confused. If AA ticketed this and the OP didnt engage in multiple reservations, hidden city tickets etc. Then why is it the fault of the OP?
If AA is willing to sell me a convoluted stupid routing, then that's on them. If there was IRROPs, then the onus goes to the OP.
although the OP deleted the post.. so I dont have the full context.
If AA is willing to sell me a convoluted stupid routing, then that's on them. If there was IRROPs, then the onus goes to the OP.
although the OP deleted the post.. so I dont have the full context.
Jan 2, 2019, 9:14 pm
#15
Join Date: May 2015
Location: WAS, SZX, HKG
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, CX Green
Posts: 735
I can't understand why this booking is fraudulent either. Some people travel for work; some people travel for fun; of course, there are some people travel to earn miles and status. If I am traveling for work, I can prefer a most direct routing with little to no stops; but if I am travel for fun, why can't I prefer a convoluted routing with multiple stops but on my desired aircraft?
I don't really find a clause anywhere on AA CoC saying customers must prefer most direct routing. As a result, if they offer these flights for sale and OP did purchase this ticket, why is there anything wrong?
I don't really find a clause anywhere on AA CoC saying customers must prefer most direct routing. As a result, if they offer these flights for sale and OP did purchase this ticket, why is there anything wrong?