Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
Jan 3, 2019, 12:09 pm
#61
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This happened to me a few years ago. I bought an MR for BWI-MIA-SJU-CLT-JFK-SEA-MIA-SJU-CLT-BWI in F a few years ago, and a mechanical at BWI threatened to blow up the trip. Started off as a delay, then cancellation, and getting forced on to a flight via the phone onto a flight that the gate AAgent said was full (boy did that one piss her off lol 
). Made it to MIA, but the flight to SJU left by the time I got there. AC agent was an angel and very helpful. I explained what I was doing an MR to requalify and she rerouted me, making the booking codes align so I still got all my EQMs.
I've had things go wonky at the end of the year and every time the agents mentioned that a lot of people doing crazy routings at the end of year to top off. So I know AA's familiar with people MR'ing for status. Like the others, if AA's willing to sell a ticketed itinerary and there aren't IRROPS, I don't understand why they can get their knickers in a twist and change the routing just because they think it's weird. And if it's a "round trip", with the different fare constructions, how can they determine where the original destination is? Arbitrarily?
Systems can be gamed, but given the games that AA and other airlines play too, it's always been a cat and mouse game. We try to get the most - they try to give the least.
). Made it to MIA, but the flight to SJU left by the time I got there. AC agent was an angel and very helpful. I explained what I was doing an MR to requalify and she rerouted me, making the booking codes align so I still got all my EQMs.I've had things go wonky at the end of the year and every time the agents mentioned that a lot of people doing crazy routings at the end of year to top off. So I know AA's familiar with people MR'ing for status. Like the others, if AA's willing to sell a ticketed itinerary and there aren't IRROPS, I don't understand why they can get their knickers in a twist and change the routing just because they think it's weird. And if it's a "round trip", with the different fare constructions, how can they determine where the original destination is? Arbitrarily?
Systems can be gamed, but given the games that AA and other airlines play too, it's always been a cat and mouse game. We try to get the most - they try to give the least.
If it's not a RT with just two fare components, then it's some multicity itinerary and the "destinations" are the startpoints and endpoints of the fare components. Those are the airports that both the OP and AA are contractually obligated to pass through (unless there's a rebooking by mutual consent). In other contexts, we would call this a broken fare.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:10 pm
#62
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Have to agree with the OP. If AA is willing to sell it, and they are willing to pay for it, that's a business transaction. If AA doesn't like it, they shouldn't sell it. We are only playing by their rules.
What if the OP had a legitimate reason to stop in each city (visit a friend, pick up an important document, etc.)?
What if the OP had a legitimate reason to stop in each city (visit a friend, pick up an important document, etc.)?
Jan 3, 2019, 12:17 pm
#63
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If it's not a RT with just two fare components, then it's some multicity itinerary and the "destinations" are the startpoints and endpoints of the fare components. Those are the airports that both the OP and AA are contractually obligated to pass through (unless there's a rebooking by mutual consent). In other contexts, we would call this a broken fare.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:19 pm
#64
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Have to agree with the OP. If AA is willing to sell it, and they are willing to pay for it, that's a business transaction. If AA doesn't like it, they shouldn't sell it. We are only playing by their rules.
What if the OP had a legitimate reason to stop in each city (visit a friend, pick up an important document, etc.)?
What if the OP had a legitimate reason to stop in each city (visit a friend, pick up an important document, etc.)?
Therefore, according to the contract which OP chose to agree to, he may be rerouted. AA chose to exercise its contract rights and reroute him. No rules were changed and OP got exactly what he paid for.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:25 pm
#65
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The airlines can file a fare and specify and limit transfers, sometimes they don't. There are still many fares out there that have the words "unlimited transfers" in them, that are mileage-based and have a generous MPM and few if any flight restrictions allowing you to go berserk. There are also some routing based fares with specified routings that allow you fly all over the place by specifying a long string of city pairs. Some of these even allow stopovers. For people who just fly around the US, those days are mostly long gone, but for fares that originate or end outside the US there are still some good opportunities.
Whether the airline can cancel and rebook you on a more direct rooting is one question, but the issue of whether these are "fraud" or "approaching fraud" is to my mind unfair. The airlines are in control of the routing rules, routing tables, transfer limits, MPM and flight restrictions and we are free to book within those parameters. I have spent the last decade+ finding fares that allow me to do unconventional things, routing the long way to take a particular carrier or aircraft or spending 23 hours in a number of places I wouldnt otherwise visit or just want to grab a meal at a favorite place (example, a string dinners in Bangkok, Saigon, Hanoi, Hong Kong among others and in no particular order, before an onward flight to North America for some small additional cost in taxes). Some of these fares evaporate the first time I book them, others continue to live on or even be refiled year after year.
I love the travel for sure, but I also love the process of analyzing routing and fare rules and pushing booking engines or travel agents to churn out unconventional routings. Illegal, fraudulent or even a violation of the airlines contract of carriage, hardly, I have had conversations with ticketing carriers about these fares when schedules change and while it may result in the fare rules being tightened up, I've never been accused of doing anything wrong. They can write better fare and routing rules if they don't like these things.
Whether the airline can cancel and rebook you on a more direct rooting is one question, but the issue of whether these are "fraud" or "approaching fraud" is to my mind unfair. The airlines are in control of the routing rules, routing tables, transfer limits, MPM and flight restrictions and we are free to book within those parameters. I have spent the last decade+ finding fares that allow me to do unconventional things, routing the long way to take a particular carrier or aircraft or spending 23 hours in a number of places I wouldnt otherwise visit or just want to grab a meal at a favorite place (example, a string dinners in Bangkok, Saigon, Hanoi, Hong Kong among others and in no particular order, before an onward flight to North America for some small additional cost in taxes). Some of these fares evaporate the first time I book them, others continue to live on or even be refiled year after year.
I love the travel for sure, but I also love the process of analyzing routing and fare rules and pushing booking engines or travel agents to churn out unconventional routings. Illegal, fraudulent or even a violation of the airlines contract of carriage, hardly, I have had conversations with ticketing carriers about these fares when schedules change and while it may result in the fare rules being tightened up, I've never been accused of doing anything wrong. They can write better fare and routing rules if they don't like these things.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:25 pm
#66
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Even on RT tix I've bought (ie not booked as mutli-city), I've seen sometimes 3 or 4 fares make up the fare construction (as shown in the fare rules). Granted, it's happened mostly on international tickets, but it hasn't been uncommon to have the ticket constructed as AAA-BBB on the outbound and something like BBB-CCC and CCC-AAA on the return, for example. So are you saying that on the return (in my example), AA would be legally obligated get me to CCC first, and then worry about AAA later? Or would it still be treated as BBB-AAA and routing me whatever way they can get there?
If this is the fare construction, namely AAA-BBB, BBB-CCC, and CCC-AAA (three fare components, so that effectively you're flying a triangle or doing a multicity itinerary), AA would be obligated to first get you to BBB and then to CCC before returning to AAA.
If AAA to BBB had been routed on the ticket as AAA-DDD-BBB (with DDD as a connection), AA would be free to reroute this portion of the itinerary as AAA-EEE-BBB or even AAA-FFF-GGG-BBB (although EC261 delay compensation could apply).
If AAA to BBB had been routed on the ticket as AAA-DDD-BBB (with DDD as a connection), AA would be free to reroute this portion of the itinerary as AAA-EEE-BBB or even AAA-FFF-GGG-BBB (although EC261 delay compensation could apply).
Jan 3, 2019, 12:29 pm
#67
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I still think AA are liable pre-travel but I'm not going there again given the storm it caused up thread.
My gripe is the number of manual ticket re-issues over the ten month period and AA being on the offensive as if I've stolen their firstborn.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:46 pm
#68
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Since this routing has been in the system for several months and AA agents have made adjustments (several times) keeping the routing (essentially) intact, AA has in effect OKed it; to "suddenly" make objections months later may be in violation of their own CoC and/or DOT mandates.
[If an error fare is booked and AA "suddenly" months later realizes their error I think it is too late to object.]
[If an error fare is booked and AA "suddenly" months later realizes their error I think it is too late to object.]
It hasn't forced a cancellaton ( which is something covered by DOT - as per error fares ) - all it has done is excercise its right to change the route to the destination
American may, without notice, substitute alternative carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket
Last edited by Dave Noble; Jan 3, 2019 at 1:00 pm
Jan 3, 2019, 1:32 pm
#69
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What clause of the CoC do you believe that it is in breack of ?
It hasn't forced a cancellaton ( which is something covered by DOT - as per error fares ) - all it has done is excercise its right to change the route to the destination
This is addressed in the CoC at https://www.aa.com/intl/es/footer_en...OfCarriage.jsp , in the section on fare changes
American may, without notice, substitute alternative carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket
It hasn't forced a cancellaton ( which is something covered by DOT - as per error fares ) - all it has done is excercise its right to change the route to the destination
This is addressed in the CoC at https://www.aa.com/intl/es/footer_en...OfCarriage.jsp , in the section on fare changes
American may, without notice, substitute alternative carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket
I'd question whether that language is suffiicient to prop up your argument.
Jan 3, 2019, 1:44 pm
#71
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Jan 3, 2019, 1:57 pm
#72
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Agreed that it's not even clear AA has carte blanche to omit stops [connections] or change the routing. Almost certainly, in normal cases, an advance re-routing would allow the passenger to refund the ticket. I'm pretty sure the substitution of an alternative carrier (e.g., a regional) would also trigger an allowed refund.
And just because they can (possibly) change the routing, doesn't mean that they should. Not without some form of consideration for the passenger, if requested. IMO.
AA really should have had the systems and/or policies in place to prevent the routing from becoming so convoluted in the first place after all the schedule changes. That they have chosen not to invest in this doesn't just give them the absolute right to do so well after the fact.
And just because they can (possibly) change the routing, doesn't mean that they should. Not without some form of consideration for the passenger, if requested. IMO.
AA really should have had the systems and/or policies in place to prevent the routing from becoming so convoluted in the first place after all the schedule changes. That they have chosen not to invest in this doesn't just give them the absolute right to do so well after the fact.
Last edited by ijgordon; Jan 3, 2019 at 7:09 pm Reason: Typo/clarification
Jan 3, 2019, 2:00 pm
#73
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That's typically the kind of thing that would be argued in court. Persaonlly, I don't think AA has a very good argument, not after they already jerked around the OP with multiple schedule changes.
Jan 3, 2019, 2:02 pm
#74
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Jan 3, 2019, 2:50 pm
#75
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the OP not only purchased a ticket for travel, but also to receive frequent credits. In the case of a premium cabin ticket credited to BA, this routing would provide much greater benefit than direct routing. AA sold it so they should honor it.