Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
Jan 2, 2019, 11:46 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2006
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 372
I would have more understanding for the airline if I wasn't forced to fly LAX-ORD-DFW with miles since "married segments" stop me from flying LAX-DFW directly. I fail to understand why its ok for the Airlines to screw us around making us fly extra segments on awards but then its not ok for us to do so with normal fares? My days of flying these are over but I once very much enjoyed some extra flying so I don't think its ok for AA to complain about this, its within the fare rules and COG.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:09 am
#32
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
The map shows context of a heck of a mileage or tier point run. I don't see what about it is "fraudulent" as JonNYC is claiming? What about that crazy route is "wrongful or criminal deception"?
Heck, back in 2004 (and other cases since) there were people who went on crazy tier point runs that were recognized and applauded (example), why not OP?
Heck, back in 2004 (and other cases since) there were people who went on crazy tier point runs that were recognized and applauded (example), why not OP?
Jan 3, 2019, 12:44 am
#33
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Fun routing but to add to someone's point about travel A-F rerouting. Airline ticketing is a contract for transportation from origin to destination. The intermediary stops aren't really a guarantee or part of the contract. There's an argument to be made for the airline to reroute especially if it is ostensibly a better routing for most "rational" travellers. Whether they should or should not I'm not sure.
As to the above Hawaii example. Your contract is travel to Hawaii. The issue is the connecting points not the destination or time spent at it
As to the above Hawaii example. Your contract is travel to Hawaii. The issue is the connecting points not the destination or time spent at it
Jan 3, 2019, 1:05 am
#34
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,594
I went to Hawaii for the day last year to get some extra EQM that I needed. Under the same guise that the OP's activity is fraudulent, my activity would also be fraudulent because that trip existed for no purpose other than racking up EQM and enjoying one mai-tai on the beach. Should AA have canceled my ticket and refused the refund because my trip had no purpose other than racking up EQM? Maybe they should have canceled my Advantage account and filed a lawsuit against me. That's what I think the slippery slope is.
If you managed to get a ticket for LAX-JFK-SFO-MIA-PHX-HNL issued , the airline would be quite within its rights to involuntarily reroute you on a non stop to HNL ; it is not
Jan 3, 2019, 1:28 am
#35
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere between AMS and ANR
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, United Platinum Premier, AF/KLM Platinum
Posts: 266
I might sound like a total noob, but where did you get these maps? I've seen very similar maps posted elsewhere but have no clue how to get them myself?
Jan 3, 2019, 1:37 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,246
Jan 3, 2019, 2:02 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,007
Jan 3, 2019, 2:26 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 136
It's come to my attention that some here have friends in Corporate Security or may even be from the department themselves. As travel is not far in the distant future and AA could do anything they want that suits them, I will re-post the detail post-travel.
My expectation of a goodwill gesture seems to have put a lot here offside. I'm out of pocket for non-refundable hotels in cities where there's no longer an overnight layover. Is being asked to be made whole all that unreasonable?
AA happily re-accomodated on three separate schedule changes (speaking to > 6 different agents) over 10 months. In my view, they have continuously changed the terms of the contract.
They've then changed their mind, threatening to rip up the tickets/contract unless their terms are accepted and expect to get out of this scot free. How is that fair?
I bought a fare, available since 2015 and flown by many before me on similar routings and number of segments (see the "pigs" over on the BA TP thread).
When AA butchered the schedule, I've called up and politely requested changes which different agents agreed to. No tricks or hacks, just calls. How on earth is that fraud?
Ignoring the routing, if an airline sells you a ticket, changes the flights 3 times and then says "you can accept this new flight or you're not travelling", would you not feel aggrieved?
No sorry, take it or leave it.
My expectation of a goodwill gesture seems to have put a lot here offside. I'm out of pocket for non-refundable hotels in cities where there's no longer an overnight layover. Is being asked to be made whole all that unreasonable?
AA happily re-accomodated on three separate schedule changes (speaking to > 6 different agents) over 10 months. In my view, they have continuously changed the terms of the contract.
They've then changed their mind, threatening to rip up the tickets/contract unless their terms are accepted and expect to get out of this scot free. How is that fair?
I bought a fare, available since 2015 and flown by many before me on similar routings and number of segments (see the "pigs" over on the BA TP thread).
When AA butchered the schedule, I've called up and politely requested changes which different agents agreed to. No tricks or hacks, just calls. How on earth is that fraud?
Ignoring the routing, if an airline sells you a ticket, changes the flights 3 times and then says "you can accept this new flight or you're not travelling", would you not feel aggrieved?
No sorry, take it or leave it.
Jan 3, 2019, 2:34 am
#39
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,594
It may not be fraudulent, but it is a ridiculous routing and the airline is only obligated to get you from origin to destination ; the conditions of carriage allow the airline to reroute the passenger, so with the schedule change it has taken the option to do so
Whether other people have done it, doesn't really matter
Whether other people have done it, doesn't really matter
Jan 3, 2019, 4:23 am
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
It may not be fraudulent, but it is a ridiculous routing and the airline is only obligated to get you from origin to destination ; the conditions of carriage allow the airline to reroute the passenger, so with the schedule change it has taken the option to do so
Whether other people have done it, doesn't really matter
Whether other people have done it, doesn't really matter
[If an error fare is booked and AA "suddenly" months later realizes their error I think it is too late to object.]
Jan 3, 2019, 4:32 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere around Europe...
Programs: BA Gold; MB Ti; HH Diamond; IHG Plat; RR Gold
Posts: 530
Speaking from a BAEC perspective OP, and based on these maps, you're still getting the same number of Tier Points with the new routing as you were on the original. Slightly less Avios admittedly.
Unfortunately though this is the downside of using non-refundable accommodation in connection to TP runs, particularly on tight nightstops. Your travel insurer might be able to assist further here (under the guise of "travel disruption"), but otherwise I would venture this will be an painful learning opportunity.
Unfortunately though this is the downside of using non-refundable accommodation in connection to TP runs, particularly on tight nightstops. Your travel insurer might be able to assist further here (under the guise of "travel disruption"), but otherwise I would venture this will be an painful learning opportunity.
Last edited by dakaix; Jan 3, 2019 at 4:40 am
Jan 3, 2019, 4:48 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Lets note that the passenger who flies this route has paid additional segment taxes, PFCs, and security fees for the ability to do this. Is AA going to be refunding the additional fees that are built into each added segment? Bet they won't.
Jan 3, 2019, 5:20 am
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
If you're changed to A-F nonstop, sometimes you can request ORC, but this might not work when crediting AA to BA. There might also be issues with getting OPC for schedule changes in advance versus for same day IROPs rebookings.
Jan 3, 2019, 5:47 am
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
On a simple A-B-C one-way ticket where B is a connection and thus not a stopover, AA is free to reroute as A-C nonstop. The passenger's option if the reroute causes scheduling issues is to cancel for a refund. If one has a need to spend time at B for leisure, work, or simply because one likes airports, one is free to book the two segments as a stopover and pay the fares for that.
Of course anyone can sue AA for having rerouted, but they are extraordinarily unlikely to prevail.