Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
Jan 10, 2019, 11:31 am
#121
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 152
Yes, airlines have the clear ability to change their schedules, and schedule changes can necessitate changing the route of a ticket. But several people have asserted that airlines can arbitrarily change the route of a ticket without there being any operational necessity. I'm trying to understand where this assertion comes from and what its scope is.
Jan 10, 2019, 12:23 pm
#122
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
Jan 10, 2019, 12:26 pm
#123
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
With other airlines, I've successfully argued against particular routing changes during IROPs. These were cases where I wanted, and had already paid more for, particular easier airports for immigration/customs lines and connections (avoid the international terminal at ORD, for instance), airports that were less prone to ATC delays or WX problems, and routings where I had a long international premium cabin segment and a short domestic FC flight (and had deliberately avoided a long domestic segment and a much shorter international segment so that I could get more sleep on the flights). YMMV, but if I paid more for particular routings or aircraft types (domestic flat beds or international suites), I would expect a refund of the fair difference and some customer service gesture if I'm involuntarily moved to a cheaper routing. YMMV, and I realize that this isn't the issue here, but I don't consider it reasonable for an airline to impose involuntary routing changes in many circumstances.
This itinerary didn't look like that though.
Jan 10, 2019, 12:30 pm
#124
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,413
Housekeeping note:
Temperature is rising a bit in this thread, so wanted post a few quick reminders...
- Remember, if you despise a topic or post, feel free to move along without posting.
- If you want to respond to a post, feel free to agree, disagree, question, ponder, counter, or remark.
- However, personal attacks are NOT ALLOWED on this forum nor on FlyerTalk. Offenders will be subject to disciplinary action per FT Rules.
- Non-contributive posts such as snark or metadiscussion will be removed, and repeated offenses may result in a warning or suspension of posting privileges.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation!
/Moderator
Temperature is rising a bit in this thread, so wanted post a few quick reminders...
- Remember, if you despise a topic or post, feel free to move along without posting.
- If you want to respond to a post, feel free to agree, disagree, question, ponder, counter, or remark.
- However, personal attacks are NOT ALLOWED on this forum nor on FlyerTalk. Offenders will be subject to disciplinary action per FT Rules.
- Non-contributive posts such as snark or metadiscussion will be removed, and repeated offenses may result in a warning or suspension of posting privileges.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation!
/Moderator
Jan 10, 2019, 12:33 pm
#125
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
You and a few other people have stated that airlines have the right to arbitrarily change routing (absent any operational necessity). I've flown quite a lot, and participated in FT for many years (admittedly well below the level of participation of many) and have never heard of this right, nor ever heard any instances of it happened, so I have asked if you or anyone else making the assertion could point to a CoC clause, fare rule, or IATA provision that provides the right. I ask this because I would like to understand this asserted ability of airlines. Dave Noble posted a CoC clause that gives AA the ability to change or omit connections when necessary. I'm still trying to understand the right of airlines to arbitrarily change routing that you, Dave Noble, and I think someone else have repeatedly stated
Words such as that spell trouble for your assertion.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...e&from=footer?
Jan 10, 2019, 12:49 pm
#126
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
Look, I think the reason why OP's flights got moved around was because there was a schedule change and some agent decided to make his routing a bit easier - not a big deal.
Booking a fare from LAX to PTY with 7 connections should be OK as it is completely within the fare rules. If AA doesn't like that, refile the fare without unlimited transfers - it's that simple.
It's like going to an all-you-can-eat restaurant and having the staff cut you off because you're eating too much.
This is not 'exploitation' or 'outright fraud' - an example of that would be the JFK-LAX-HKG-LHR F error for $150. THAT would be a "reservation made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules" as it glitched the ticketing system (or something along those lines.)
Booking a fare from LAX to PTY with 7 connections should be OK as it is completely within the fare rules. If AA doesn't like that, refile the fare without unlimited transfers - it's that simple.
It's like going to an all-you-can-eat restaurant and having the staff cut you off because you're eating too much.
This is not 'exploitation' or 'outright fraud' - an example of that would be the JFK-LAX-HKG-LHR F error for $150. THAT would be a "reservation made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules" as it glitched the ticketing system (or something along those lines.)
I always write IATA airport codes in Pig Latin.
Jan 10, 2019, 4:02 pm
#129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Posts: 17,475
So, the OP is/was holding a PTY-LAX ticket routed via MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN? Do I have that correct?
Is PTY-MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN-LAX a legal routing per the rules of any PTY-LAX fare?
That's the core issue, in my opinion. Is the routing legal per the fare rules or not?
Is PTY-MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN-LAX a legal routing per the rules of any PTY-LAX fare?
That's the core issue, in my opinion. Is the routing legal per the fare rules or not?
Jan 10, 2019, 4:06 pm
#130
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
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Posts: 62,948
I will quote my esteemed colleague here
and warn those who failed to read it or choose to ignore it that membership suspensions are now FlyerTalk deals with those who decline to abide by the rules they promised to abide by when granted that membership.
Moderator
Housekeeping note:
Temperature is rising a bit in this thread, so wanted post a few quick reminders...
- Remember, if you despise a topic or post, feel free to move along without posting.
- If you want to respond to a post, feel free to agree, disagree, question, ponder, counter, or remark.
- However, personal attacks are NOT ALLOWED on this forum nor on FlyerTalk. Offenders will be subject to disciplinary action per FT Rules.
- Non-contributive posts such as snark or metadiscussion will be removed, and repeated offenses may result in a warning or suspension of posting privileges.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation!
/Moderator
Temperature is rising a bit in this thread, so wanted post a few quick reminders...
- Remember, if you despise a topic or post, feel free to move along without posting.
- If you want to respond to a post, feel free to agree, disagree, question, ponder, counter, or remark.
- However, personal attacks are NOT ALLOWED on this forum nor on FlyerTalk. Offenders will be subject to disciplinary action per FT Rules.
- Non-contributive posts such as snark or metadiscussion will be removed, and repeated offenses may result in a warning or suspension of posting privileges.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation!
/Moderator
Moderator
Jan 10, 2019, 4:08 pm
#131
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
So, the OP is/was holding a PTY-LAX ticket routed via MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN? Do I have that correct?
Is PTY-MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN-LAX a legal routing per the rules of any PTY-LAX fare?
That's the core issue, in my opinion. Is the routing legal per the fare rules or not?
Is PTY-MIA-TPA-CLT-RDU-PHL-PHX-SAN-LAX a legal routing per the rules of any PTY-LAX fare?
That's the core issue, in my opinion. Is the routing legal per the fare rules or not?
Jan 10, 2019, 4:12 pm
#132
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
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Jan 10, 2019, 4:37 pm
#133
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 136
As someone here put it, AA jerked me around with their frequent (and significant) schedule changes, re-ticketing and then changed their mind on the whole thing.
The point of the thread was to ask if it was reasonable to expect a customer service gesture, in lieu of monetary reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses. The concept of a Tier Run seemed very much frowned upon on this side of the FT pond, as indicated by the initial responses here.
Due to imminent travel, the original post did more harm than good but would be happy to share specifics upon return.
Jan 10, 2019, 4:41 pm
#134
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Aspen, CO
Posts: 792
Man, you're a time traveler and a mind-reader?! 
Joking aside, I know you're well connected in the AA sphere. I'm honestly just curious about your knowledge about people from AA infiltrating private groups... I find it very odd that AA management would push for something like this - or - is it some AA vigilante looking for brownie points? William Bell?
Yes, the routing he booked was completely legal under the rules filed in the fare he purchased. AA sold him a fare that allowed for unlimited stopovers which OP took advantage of. No wrongdoing in my opinion...
Joking aside, I know you're well connected in the AA sphere. I'm honestly just curious about your knowledge about people from AA infiltrating private groups... I find it very odd that AA management would push for something like this - or - is it some AA vigilante looking for brownie points? William Bell?
Yes, the routing he booked was completely legal under the rules filed in the fare he purchased. AA sold him a fare that allowed for unlimited stopovers which OP took advantage of. No wrongdoing in my opinion...
Jan 10, 2019, 4:43 pm
#135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
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Posts: 17,475
Thank you. That is interesting. No MPM (maximum permitted mileage) either?
