Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 am
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines may intervene in overly circuitous routing as covered by the AA Conditions of Carriage
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
Your ticket is not valid when:
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
Ticket validity link to these Conditions of Carriage
Tickets are valid for travel only when used with all terms and conditions of sale.
Your ticket is valid only when:
Travel is to/from the cities on your ticket and in your trip record
You meet all the fare requirements
Fare requirements, like dates, special purpose or status, may include:
- Dates of stay (a Saturday night, weekend, etc.)
- Military status (to qualify for a military fare)
- Official government business (to qualify for a government fare)
- Attendance at an event (to qualify for a meeting or convention fare)
Your ticket is not valid when:
- You don't meet the dates of stay, purpose or status requirements for the fare
- We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Exploiting fare rules
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are strictly prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchase a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden cities)
- Buy a ticket without intent to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combine 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Book a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Hold reservations for reasons including securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
If we find evidence that you or your agent are using an exploitive practice, we reserve the right to:
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently.
Fare errors
If we sell a fare in error, we have the right to cancel the ticket. This includes fare errors, computer errors and third party errors (human or computer). We make every effort to prevent, detect and correct errors as soon as possible.
When we issue a mistaken fare, we'll void the ticket, give a full refund and notify you within:
- 72 hours after we learn of the mistaken fare
- At least 24 hours before departure if you bought the ticket less than 72 hours before departure
AA Corporate Security takes aim at my circuitous routing (ticket validity)
Jan 9, 2019, 8:45 pm
#107
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Jan 9, 2019, 9:25 pm
#108
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(Bolding added.) To my reading, the "if necessary" clause means that AA may not arbitrarily alter or omit stopping places just because they feel like it. The wording clearly gives them the right to do so during delays or irregular operations. Wording elsewhere allows AA to change schedules. I don't see a right for AA to arbitrarily change the routing absent an operational need.
Jan 9, 2019, 9:37 pm
#109
Join Date: Dec 2014
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I wonder if people somehow managed to get tickets changed from the AA flight numbers to a code-share flight number during IRROPS or a schedule change--in which case, I sure AA would be much more concerned about lost revenue than crediting RDM/EQD but maybe I'm not reading in-between the lines correctly as I am also confused.
Jan 9, 2019, 9:38 pm
#110
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It’s true, some people said they were putting a 1x on the front end of some AA fares and it would cause the fare to earn as distance instead of fare (which was insanely cheap). For the exIndia fares it also often dropped the India premium ticket tax. But again, both things (tax dump and rdm earning) have nothing to do with permitted routings, those are more serious issues in my mind. I think dumping is exploiting seams in the system that calculates taxes and is fun to do on ITA to understand the black box on the other end but cheating (and of dubious legality) and not something I would try to ticket/fly. But when a fare says unlimted transfers or lets me route on someone elses superior product... I’m game.
Hearing AA sent moles in to private groups to learn these tricks... I can only laugh. I’m not even a TA and I found all of these fares and how to maximize them using pretty basic tools. I didnt even have a tool that allowed me to search by filing date, so it was a struggle to hunt/peck for city pairs to get all those 2007/2008 fares with the good rules. Pretty funny that AA couldn’t figure these things out on their own with what I assume to be much more powerful tools!!
Hearing AA sent moles in to private groups to learn these tricks... I can only laugh. I’m not even a TA and I found all of these fares and how to maximize them using pretty basic tools. I didnt even have a tool that allowed me to search by filing date, so it was a struggle to hunt/peck for city pairs to get all those 2007/2008 fares with the good rules. Pretty funny that AA couldn’t figure these things out on their own with what I assume to be much more powerful tools!!
Jan 10, 2019, 2:53 am
#111
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Speaking from a BAEC perspective OP, and based on these maps, you're still getting the same number of Tier Points with the new routing as you were on the original. Slightly less Avios admittedly.
Unfortunately though this is the downside of using non-refundable accommodation in connection to TP runs, particularly on tight nightstops. Your travel insurer might be able to assist further here (under the guise of "travel disruption"), but otherwise I would venture this will be an painful learning opportunity.
Unfortunately though this is the downside of using non-refundable accommodation in connection to TP runs, particularly on tight nightstops. Your travel insurer might be able to assist further here (under the guise of "travel disruption"), but otherwise I would venture this will be an painful learning opportunity.
Jan 10, 2019, 3:25 am
#112
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Join Date: Sep 2018
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Posts: 136
So, Jon is saying that it wasn't that the OP was abrasive to an agent who then flagged the itinerary for review, but that AA had people ("moles" I suppose you could say) in some groups where people were talking about ways to get an itinerary to credit as distance rather than fare, to earn far more RDM and EQD than would otherwise be the case, and the person was able to find the OP's itinerary from participation in the group.
I sent Jon a DM on 22nd November seeking advice. There was no response, except for some tweets on 24th November with suggestions of fraud which has become the subject of much confusion in this thread. I'm still confused but I won't go there as my mother taught me, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
I'm not aware of any groups that discuss exploitative ticketing practices or forcing itineraries to credit differently. If it does exist, it's certainly above my pay grade.
There are many threads throughout FT that discuss how to maximise a fare within the published fare rules but I do not consider this exploitative or fraudulent.
Jan 10, 2019, 5:51 am
#113
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That provides for AA's refusing to book a reservation that is made to exploit or circumvent a fare or ticket rule, or cancel (with refund) one that was made that way. It does not provide for arbitrary reroute. It's also not what I consider plain English, because fundamentally, reservations that exploit (meaning "make full use of and derive benefit from") fare and ticket rules are exceedingly common. One could reasonably say that FT itself exists to help people exploit fare and ticket rules. Now, circumventing fare or ticket rules is clearly grounds for refusing to issue a ticket or cancelling (with refund) one that was made. But the two are very different.
Jan 10, 2019, 7:32 am
#114
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 152
(Bolding added.) To my reading, the "if necessary" clause means that AA may not arbitrarily alter or omit stopping places just because they feel like it. The wording clearly gives them the right to do so during delays or irregular operations. Wording elsewhere allows AA to change schedules. I don't see a right for AA to arbitrarily change the routing absent an operational need.
Sometimes we have to make adjustments to our operation, and between the time you book and the day you depart, there may be changes to:
- The type of plane you're flying on
- Your seat
- The airline that operates your flight
- The number of stopovers or stopover cities
- Departure or arrival times
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...ulesoperations
Jan 10, 2019, 10:09 am
#116
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Jan 10, 2019, 10:21 am
#117
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With other airlines, I've successfully argued against particular routing changes during IROPs. These were cases where I wanted, and had already paid more for, particular easier airports for immigration/customs lines and connections (avoid the international terminal at ORD, for instance), airports that were less prone to ATC delays or WX problems, and routings where I had a long international premium cabin segment and a short domestic FC flight (and had deliberately avoided a long domestic segment and a much shorter international segment so that I could get more sleep on the flights). YMMV, but if I paid more for particular routings or aircraft types (domestic flat beds or international suites), I would expect a refund of the fair difference and some customer service gesture if I'm involuntarily moved to a cheaper routing. YMMV, and I realize that this isn't the issue here, but I don't consider it reasonable for an airline to impose involuntary routing changes in many circumstances.
Jan 10, 2019, 10:21 am
#118
Join Date: Aug 2004
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No, it is a clear part of a contract to which the passenger agrees. Whether AA rejects the booking at the moment it is made or later when the violation comes to light is irrelevant. In this case, the violation came to light during an unrelated ticket reissue. Perhaps if that had never happened, OP could have flown the original routing. But, that would not have changed the potential violation.
Jan 10, 2019, 10:25 am
#119
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This seems applicable and clear to me
Sometimes we have to make adjustments to our operation, and between the time you book and the day you depart, there may be changes to:
- The type of plane you're flying on
- Your seat
- The airline that operates your flight
- The number of stopovers or stopover cities
- Departure or arrival times
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-ser...ulesoperations
Jan 10, 2019, 10:27 am
#120
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
It would be cool if AA sent "spies" to pay attention to threads like the ones that describe checkin problems in FAT rather than just treating their customers like enemies all the time.