AA and American culture (part redux)
Dec 27, 2018, 6:57 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Programs: AA EXP, TK Elite, HH Gold, SPG/Marriott Gold
Posts: 939
No, I think its that we've become a "Wal Mart" society. People are willing to trade service and comfort for a cheap fare. Look at the way Spirit and Frontier are growing. Personally I don't get it. To save maybe $50 you shove yourself into a god awful uncomfortable seat and have to pay for things like printing a BP at the kiosk (do either of those airlines have mobile BPs?) Not to mention in the case of irregular ops you are probably so totally screwed.
Kinda of amazing that the original no frills airline WN is now considered in many ways the full service airline.
Kinda of amazing that the original no frills airline WN is now considered in many ways the full service airline.
Dec 27, 2018, 8:59 am
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Philippics
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30519320-post35.html
Seems the OP has a lengthy history of rambling philippics.
why are toilet seats too small?
ah, Sheraton in the US
the annoying honk when everybody is walking
"it would be more productive if you ..."
why is service so miserable in Alaska (restaurant)?
why are toilet seats too small?
ah, Sheraton in the US
the annoying honk when everybody is walking
"it would be more productive if you ..."
why is service so miserable in Alaska (restaurant)?
Dec 27, 2018, 9:01 am
#19
Join Date: May 2017
Location: ORD
Posts: 369
I was never asked if I wanted anything else when flying NH J a little over 10 years ago. They kept my glass full, but that was it. It's my understanding that I was to ring the call button if I wanted anything (I think the menu may have even included a message to that effect).
Dec 27, 2018, 11:27 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 588
Perhaps the OP, if he/she has not already, should consider moving to an Asian country, where the rest of us barbaric Americans wont offend his delicate sensibilities.
Dec 27, 2018, 11:45 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Wonder if this person was related to a high level executive of Korean Airlines....
Dec 27, 2018, 11:54 am
#22
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,975
It's no secret that Asian and Western styles of service can be very different. And the OP picks two extremes of each.
Even among US-based carriers, AA has the reputation for the least consistent service, especially on overseas routes They are often staffed by the most senior and least accountable FAs. Galley noise, yanking headphones 90 minutes or more before landing, and little proactive service are regularly reported here. To be (a little bit) fair to them, AA management heaps on more and more obstacles to delivering good service (packing in more seats, minimal catering even in premium cabins, minimum staffing) that even the good ones may eventually stop caring.
IME the Japanese in general, and JL in particular, are on the other extreme in terms of service. There is certainly a cultural aspect but it is obviously strongly reinforced through high standards and training.
Even among US-based carriers, AA has the reputation for the least consistent service, especially on overseas routes They are often staffed by the most senior and least accountable FAs. Galley noise, yanking headphones 90 minutes or more before landing, and little proactive service are regularly reported here. To be (a little bit) fair to them, AA management heaps on more and more obstacles to delivering good service (packing in more seats, minimal catering even in premium cabins, minimum staffing) that even the good ones may eventually stop caring.
IME the Japanese in general, and JL in particular, are on the other extreme in terms of service. There is certainly a cultural aspect but it is obviously strongly reinforced through high standards and training.
Dec 27, 2018, 12:42 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Ahh ... I love the sound of clanking silverware in the morning.
Dec 27, 2018, 12:44 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP, 2 Million Miler
Posts: 821
I do think the OP is wrong about the meal. I think AA's choices are as many if not more than JAL's. Sounds like the OP was sitting in or near the last row of business. The FAs work from front to back, so if you didn't pre-order, those in the last rows may have fewer choices if there is a run on a certain meal choice.
I have occasionally experienced the noise when sleeping on an AA flight, but it's rare.
I do prefer the super diamond seat design on AA over JAL's 2-3-2 business seating, and the AA zodiac seats get my 3rd place vote.
Dec 27, 2018, 3:13 pm
#25
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,227
You can’t compare AA with JAL without bringing up the cultural differences between USA and Japan, especially regarding service culture. To blame unions, and FA structures without even mentioning clear cultural distinctions is meaningless.
American (USA) service culture is what it is. It’s a reflection of the US itself. Informal, not regimented, more egalitarian. Japanese service culture is famous and distinctly not Western.
To expect them to be similar is ludicrous.
I absolutely enjoyed my AA flights to and from Japan. Of course, I am an American and I use technology to make sure I get my meal choices by preordering. I expect a US based airline to provide the easy informal and fun service I enjoy. And I was well taken care of in the AA 787-9 LAX - NRT flight I chose. The Flagship Lounge in LAX was great. Struck up conversations with several folks who work there. Fun place. The AA lounge in NRT was similarly nice.
my meals were good. The drinks were strong. The flight attendants were fun and casual and I was well taken care of. But I’m pretty low maintenance because I’m an American and have American based expectations for American service culture.
American (USA) service culture is what it is. It’s a reflection of the US itself. Informal, not regimented, more egalitarian. Japanese service culture is famous and distinctly not Western.
To expect them to be similar is ludicrous.
I absolutely enjoyed my AA flights to and from Japan. Of course, I am an American and I use technology to make sure I get my meal choices by preordering. I expect a US based airline to provide the easy informal and fun service I enjoy. And I was well taken care of in the AA 787-9 LAX - NRT flight I chose. The Flagship Lounge in LAX was great. Struck up conversations with several folks who work there. Fun place. The AA lounge in NRT was similarly nice.
my meals were good. The drinks were strong. The flight attendants were fun and casual and I was well taken care of. But I’m pretty low maintenance because I’m an American and have American based expectations for American service culture.
Dec 27, 2018, 6:29 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Southern California
Programs: AA EXPlat, 2.4MM; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 580
You can’t compare AA with JAL without bringing up the cultural differences between USA and Japan, especially regarding service culture. To blame unions, and FA structures without even mentioning clear cultural distinctions is meaningless.
American (USA) service culture is what it is. It’s a reflection of the US itself. Informal, not regimented, more egalitarian. Japanese service culture is famous and distinctly not Western.
To expect them to be similar is ludicrous.
I absolutely enjoyed my AA flights to and from Japan. Of course, I am an American and I use technology to make sure I get my meal choices by preordering. I expect a US based airline to provide the easy informal and fun service I enjoy. And I was well taken care of in the AA 787-9 LAX - NRT flight I chose. The Flagship Lounge in LAX was great. Struck up conversations with several folks who work there. Fun place. The AA lounge in NRT was similarly nice.
my meals were good. The drinks were strong. The flight attendants were fun and casual and I was well taken care of. But I’m pretty low maintenance because I’m an American and have American based expectations for American service culture.
American (USA) service culture is what it is. It’s a reflection of the US itself. Informal, not regimented, more egalitarian. Japanese service culture is famous and distinctly not Western.
To expect them to be similar is ludicrous.
I absolutely enjoyed my AA flights to and from Japan. Of course, I am an American and I use technology to make sure I get my meal choices by preordering. I expect a US based airline to provide the easy informal and fun service I enjoy. And I was well taken care of in the AA 787-9 LAX - NRT flight I chose. The Flagship Lounge in LAX was great. Struck up conversations with several folks who work there. Fun place. The AA lounge in NRT was similarly nice.
my meals were good. The drinks were strong. The flight attendants were fun and casual and I was well taken care of. But I’m pretty low maintenance because I’m an American and have American based expectations for American service culture.
Dec 27, 2018, 6:43 pm
#27
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,227
Dec 27, 2018, 7:58 pm
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
While it isn't prohibited on AA (smiling, that is) on JL I'm pretty sure they are taught to smile.
It is like a server at a restaurant never smiling. I mean, it is a FA on a plane, not CBP at a port.
Dec 27, 2018, 9:19 pm
#29
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
And, I confess, after some wine and port, followed by a few hours with the Casper bedding, its nice to hear the clank of silverware with the smell of breakfast. It reminds me that I soon I'll be landing in another interesting place.
And ... on another note, if I reversed some of this, and started complaining about culture from a different country, wouldn't I be accused of being a racist ....
The fact is that US and European based airlines sometimes tolerate poor service which sometimes comes from senior crews. Asian and Middle Eastern Airlines don't have that problem because they usually don't have legal restrictions on age discrimination or contracts with seniority provisions. On the other hand, my experiences with Compass and Skywest crews is like Lake Wobegon (where they use silverware that clank ...), that they are all above average.
Now hopefully, AA will adopt a policy of sending a survey to all pax in J with objective questions ... that you for flying AA ____ to ____. We would appreciate it if you would complete the following survey.
1. Were you offered a PDB
2. Did the FA greet you by name
3. Did the FA make you feel welcome throughout the flight
4. Did you receive the meal of your choice
5. Did the FA thank you by name for being an ____
I think all of these things are in the service manual ...
Dec 27, 2018, 9:25 pm
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Rapid Rewards, AAdvantage, SkyMiles
Posts: 2,931
I wouldn't make a generalization that it's the older FA's that are all awful due to the fact that I've had many older or at least "senior" male & female FA's in Y and F on domestic routing and Hawaii routes that went above and beyond and made me wish everyone acted like them.
It seems to me that the grumpiest most "I hate my job" types with high seniority pick the international routes because they only have to fly 3-4 flights max a month to keep their job. Maybe AA and the rest of the US majors should make these long haul flight attendants work more sectors a month, maybe that would weed out the "I don't like the job but I like the benefits" types that seem to gravitate toward the long haul flights.
It seems to me that the grumpiest most "I hate my job" types with high seniority pick the international routes because they only have to fly 3-4 flights max a month to keep their job. Maybe AA and the rest of the US majors should make these long haul flight attendants work more sectors a month, maybe that would weed out the "I don't like the job but I like the benefits" types that seem to gravitate toward the long haul flights.