Service analysts monitoring onboard service
Dec 13, 2018, 11:12 pm
#31
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
I feel compelled to clarify -- that flight attendant is most likely the galley position F/A. Their duties are specifically to set up the galley & prepare service items & have absolutely no business being in the aisle. There are dedicated aisle FA's for that. This is especially true for wide bodies. I often work the galley position on a 777 and there simply isn't much time, opportunity, or point, for the galley FA to be in the aisle during the service.
Dec 13, 2018, 11:23 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2004
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UA, in the '80s, had secret shoppers, also known as "ghost riders". One bad review and the FA was suspended for a month AND sent to retraining. 2nd bad review required a career change. The FA's HATED ghost riders, and it was always a topic of conversation in the galleys ("I think 2B is a ghost rider!") as they then performed a flawless service.
Dec 14, 2018, 12:41 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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If I remember it correctly last decade at the time of the HP/US merger. HP had a "secret evaluator" system in place on random flights. Which is why HP flight attendants always seemed to do things by the book reagrding onboard service, whereas the US ones seemed to do things as they wanted.
Dec 14, 2018, 8:47 am
#34
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
https://onemileatatime.com/why-american-airlines-flight-attendants-dont-like-doug-parker/
I assume the issue with a secret shopper is that they would be taking away a revenue seat, particularly upfront. ...
As far as "training." Most of the issues have very little to do with training and more towards attitude. Really for a operational standpoint how hard is it to understand how to do a PDB in F/J? If newly hired FAs can't remember that's part of their duty when working F/J I'd say AA has a hiring quality issue. As noted this cuts across all job tenure lines. ...
Since there's no way to manage FAs onboard unless AA starts to pay for a crew lead FA (and that's not gonna happen) I think this issue won't go away. The FAs will simply do their duties onboard when the "service analyst" is present and go back to their old ways as soon as that person is gone.
As far as "training." Most of the issues have very little to do with training and more towards attitude. Really for a operational standpoint how hard is it to understand how to do a PDB in F/J? If newly hired FAs can't remember that's part of their duty when working F/J I'd say AA has a hiring quality issue. As noted this cuts across all job tenure lines. ...
Since there's no way to manage FAs onboard unless AA starts to pay for a crew lead FA (and that's not gonna happen) I think this issue won't go away. The FAs will simply do their duties onboard when the "service analyst" is present and go back to their old ways as soon as that person is gone.
And therein lies the main issue with this -- if you (as a company) want legitimate feedback and/or advice, you have to pay for it. This is AA's cheapness at work: it seems to be the result of someone at AA realizing "we need feedback" and focusing purely on the cost of obtaining data rather than the value of the data collected.
What would send FAs into a bigger tizzy than being evaluated by management? Being evaluated by anonymous flyers. 'They don't know our service standards.' 'Catering didn't stock it.' 'We were late boarding and didn't have time for PDBs.' The list of excuses would be endless.
Exactly. I have *never* understood the US legacy approach of not having a senior FA on board who is responsible for managing the crew and service. Non-legacy airlines do it. US FAs and the unions are vehemently against this, but in what other industry does an employee have literally no exposure to supervision? Even other industries with union labor have worker / crew supervisory positions.
that's probably how they concluded they had a problem...i.e. the secret part has been done and they're rolling out something to train/retrain
using the excuse that it's the junior people who didn't learn everything in training certainly is less threatening of a message to FA's then saying we're here to correct the oldsters, which is probably where the real problem is!
all they'd get is a bunch of forms with complaints demanding miles for compensation like we get on here LOL
using the excuse that it's the junior people who didn't learn everything in training certainly is less threatening of a message to FA's then saying we're here to correct the oldsters, which is probably where the real problem is!
all they'd get is a bunch of forms with complaints demanding miles for compensation like we get on here LOL
As I have said on this site before , the FA's and their union reflect poorly on all unions. FA's believe they are " professionals " and want to be treated as such but some act like children. Most are fair at their job , but it ain't rocket science ! " Please don't ask me to do anything while I'm in the middle of Candy Crush " . Only way to lite a fire under the lazy butts , is to terminate a few. Might sound harsh but having been in unions , it needs to be done from time to time.
None of what FAs do with respect to the onboard service is mind bending. Really? How hard is to know things like if the Y seat number is tagged in blue paxs may have free alcoholic drinks. Or those on the manifest flying in Y listed as EXP/CK get free BOB. "Retraining" probably means the FA get to fly to a class in DFW and socialize with their friends while being told something they should know like the back of their hand to begin with.
If I remember it correctly last decade at the time of the HP/US merger. HP had a "secret evaluator" system in place on random flights. Which is why HP flight attendants always seemed to do things by the book reagrding onboard service, whereas the US ones seemed to do things as they wanted.
Last edited by Dallas49er; Dec 14, 2018 at 9:21 am
Dec 14, 2018, 9:07 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2011
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If the shoppers were random members of the general public, sure -- see all the Flyertalk complaints about "cranky, old grandma" FAs (or compliments about "youthful, energetic" FAs). But trained evaluators running through a checklist of objective and binary criteria (was a PDB offered? full menu or water/juice? warm nuts? hot towel? etc) would catch the worst and most common service failures on AA, without getting into nonsense like whether the FA's smile was radiant enough on a scale of 1-10 or whatever.
Dec 14, 2018, 9:18 am
#36
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
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You'd be surprised. As a college professor, I'm very aware of the way that student evaluations work. The quality of the instruction provided is just about the LEAST important factor in student evals of professors. The most important factors?
Is the professor liked/likeable?
Is the professor regarded as an easy grader?
Is the professor, if male, authoritative? If female, is she attractive enough to be seen as hot by the male students but not so attractive as to be threatening to the female students?
Regardless of the above, deduct 20% to the class evals if the prof is female.
etc...
This phenomenon has been borne out by multiple studies. I have absolutely no doubt that pax rating FAs (even semi-pro "secret shoppers") would default to the same metrics. It's basic human nature to rate people based on nonsense. In other words, humans are horrible people.
Is the professor liked/likeable?
Is the professor regarded as an easy grader?
Is the professor, if male, authoritative? If female, is she attractive enough to be seen as hot by the male students but not so attractive as to be threatening to the female students?
Regardless of the above, deduct 20% to the class evals if the prof is female.
etc...
This phenomenon has been borne out by multiple studies. I have absolutely no doubt that pax rating FAs (even semi-pro "secret shoppers") would default to the same metrics. It's basic human nature to rate people based on nonsense. In other words, humans are horrible people.
In ACADEMIA, yes.
In the REAL WORLD, no.
Dec 14, 2018, 9:28 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Washington DC
Programs: AA Plt Pro (2MM)
Posts: 199
It seems to me that this might be part of a larger AA strategy. Fly these "observers" (or whatever you want to call them) plus what seems to be an uptick in passenger surveys. I've not had a flight with one of these analysts (at least that I know of) but I've been surveyed about all of my recent flights...not something that has happened to me in the past. Put that together and it does make me wonder if AA is using at least a couple of different tools to figure out what is going on across the fleet service-wise. I must say that the in-flight service I've received recently has been very good...hard product hasn't changed all that much with the exception of the newly added and exceptionally sub-par 737 MAX 8 cabins (I argue that these offer the worst seating experience in the AA fleet...probably to include the RJs). Maybe AA should take a look at what they're doing with their hard product in addition to whatever they're doing with these observers and surveys.
Dec 14, 2018, 9:54 am
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Be careful what you wish for.
Consistency may mean that everybody gets three ice cubes in their drink. But, it also means that if the service standard for a micro-haul is one drink, the FA who desn't make a fuss about a second, most certainly will say no going forward.
Many of AA's changes, including moving from native SABRE, limit the flexibility of front line employees.
Consistency may mean that everybody gets three ice cubes in their drink. But, it also means that if the service standard for a micro-haul is one drink, the FA who desn't make a fuss about a second, most certainly will say no going forward.
Many of AA's changes, including moving from native SABRE, limit the flexibility of front line employees.
Dec 14, 2018, 10:58 am
#39
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
Be careful what you wish for.
Consistency may mean that everybody gets three ice cubes in their drink. But, it also means that if the service standard for a micro-haul is one drink, the FA who desn't make a fuss about a second, most certainly will say no going forward.
Many of AA's changes, including moving from native SABRE, limit the flexibility of front line employees.
Consistency may mean that everybody gets three ice cubes in their drink. But, it also means that if the service standard for a micro-haul is one drink, the FA who desn't make a fuss about a second, most certainly will say no going forward.
Many of AA's changes, including moving from native SABRE, limit the flexibility of front line employees.
NO WAIVERS, NO FAVORS, NO EXCEPTIONS! (Except CK)
Last edited by Dallas49er; Dec 15, 2018 at 9:41 am
Dec 14, 2018, 11:51 am
#40
Join Date: May 2003
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Posts: 2,668
Kind of fits with the unusual and unexpected emailed survey I received after a round trip last weekend.
Asked perfunctory opening questions about multiple aspects of the flight, but quickly narrowed and clearly focused on nebulous soft-skills of the FA's, AAngels, and GA's. (Things like eye contact, smiling and facial expression, name use, and formality). Beyond basic professionalism, reasonable efficiency, and common courtesy I really would not notice and would not expect Stepford conformity. I've never worked for an airline, all my AA and US cabin crew acquaintances have retired, but the survey was still so autocratic it went all over me.
But as noted above, the FA union was seduced over a few dollars and only too happy to throw old management into the engine.
Asked perfunctory opening questions about multiple aspects of the flight, but quickly narrowed and clearly focused on nebulous soft-skills of the FA's, AAngels, and GA's. (Things like eye contact, smiling and facial expression, name use, and formality). Beyond basic professionalism, reasonable efficiency, and common courtesy I really would not notice and would not expect Stepford conformity. I've never worked for an airline, all my AA and US cabin crew acquaintances have retired, but the survey was still so autocratic it went all over me.
But as noted above, the FA union was seduced over a few dollars and only too happy to throw old management into the engine.
Dec 15, 2018, 9:22 am
#41
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW-In Plano & CDG-In the 11th
Programs: DL Diamond, AA revenue negative, Bonvoy Titanium +, Avis likes me
Posts: 3,209
As I have said on this site before , the FA's and their union reflect poorly on all unions. FA's believe they are " professionals " and want to be treated as such but some act like children. Most are fair at their job , but it ain't rocket science ! " Please don't ask me to do anything while I'm in the middle of Candy Crush " . Only way to lite a fire under the lazy butts , is to terminate a few. Might sound harsh but having been in unions , it needs to be done from time to time.
AA manglement needs to, if they were TRULY serious about "customer service in-flight" (doubtful at best), and grow a pair vis a vis unions. And if they thought there truly was a problem, they could:
1. Cull- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cull
or
2. Pour encourager les autres- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...20les%20autres
Take your pick.
With "UA Ghost riders", the s*** FAs tended to self-cull through performance (or lack thereof).
(Sarcasm on) And there is probably something in the union contract that prohibits #2 (execution). (Sarcasm off)
Last edited by Dallas49er; Dec 15, 2018 at 2:33 pm