Dec 10, 2018, 1:52 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Which Boeing 777-200ER will I have?
AA has a fleet of 47 Boeing 777-223ER aircraft configured with 37 Business, 24 Premium Economy and 212 Main Cabin seats, including 66 Main Cabin Extra (including exit rows) seats. With the mixed 19 Zodiac vs 28 Super Diamond 772 fleet, Business travelers will be at risk of an aircraft substitution from one to the other, though apparently Dispatch prefers keeping the same subtype on certain routes; in cases of OSO, etc. one type may be substituted for another, even without notice (some FT members have reported such).
Link to list of airframes by registration number and configuration in (unofficial) AA fleet pages.
NOTE: it has been reported aa.com seat charts will usually show “no notches”, IMO, Super Diamond seats, until 48 hours from departure time. At that time, Zodiac equipped aircraft seat charts will display notches on aft-facing seats.
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ExTV IFE for every seat
Business cabin notes
Version 1
19 aircraft are fitted with 37 Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in yin-yang configuration (the inoperable privacy divider and induced motion from seats “tied at the head” aka “Motion over the ocean” are supposed to be remediate by AA)
Version 2
28 aircraft are fitted with 37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business suites in an angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration
Premium Economy notes
24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration
Main Cabin Extra notes
66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration
Main Cabin notes
148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch in a 3-4-3 configuration
Why two configurations?
All 47 772s were all to have been configured with 45 Zodiac Concept D Business Suites in a yin-yang configuration, some with C45, most with C37. The same seat was to be installed in AA Boeing 787-8 and -9 aircraft.
The C45 decision was made before the reverse takeover of AA by US. The decision was changed to go to a C37 772 aircraft across the board, and that the 13 772s with C45 would be reconfigured to C37.
Zodiac was unable to manufacture the seat in sufficient quantity to satisfy their contract with AA. The 772 refit was stalled, and some early 787-8s sat on the ground seatless. AA was upset at deriving no revenue from them but having to pay for the idled aircraft.
AA sued and terminated the contract with Zodiac, and let the seats contract for remaining seats to B/E Aerospace (purchased in 2017 by Rockwell Collins).
AA also decided to refit 772s and 788s with Premium Economy as well as to standardize the Zodiac subfleet to C37. The last two C45 Zodiac 772s were in the shop at KPAE getting refitted to C37 and PE as of early December 2018.
Related threads
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Super Diamond seat
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
Boeing 777-200ER / 777 Best Premium Economy
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac Main Cabin & Extra / MCE
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777" C37 Super Diamond Economy / Main Cabin & Extra MCE
AA has a fleet of 47 Boeing 777-223ER aircraft configured with 37 Business, 24 Premium Economy and 212 Main Cabin seats, including 66 Main Cabin Extra (including exit rows) seats. With the mixed 19 Zodiac vs 28 Super Diamond 772 fleet, Business travelers will be at risk of an aircraft substitution from one to the other, though apparently Dispatch prefers keeping the same subtype on certain routes; in cases of OSO, etc. one type may be substituted for another, even without notice (some FT members have reported such).
Link to list of airframes by registration number and configuration in (unofficial) AA fleet pages.
NOTE: it has been reported aa.com seat charts will usually show “no notches”, IMO, Super Diamond seats, until 48 hours from departure time. At that time, Zodiac equipped aircraft seat charts will display notches on aft-facing seats.
110 VAC universal plug and 5 VDC USB
Panasonic International satellite based WiFi (fee)
ExTV IFE for every seat
Business cabin notes
Version 1
19 aircraft are fitted with 37 Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in yin-yang configuration (the inoperable privacy divider and induced motion from seats “tied at the head” aka “Motion over the ocean” are supposed to be remediate by AA)
Version 2
28 aircraft are fitted with 37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business suites in an angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration
Premium Economy notes
24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration
Main Cabin Extra notes
66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration
Main Cabin notes
148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch in a 3-4-3 configuration
Why two configurations?
All 47 772s were all to have been configured with 45 Zodiac Concept D Business Suites in a yin-yang configuration, some with C45, most with C37. The same seat was to be installed in AA Boeing 787-8 and -9 aircraft.
The C45 decision was made before the reverse takeover of AA by US. The decision was changed to go to a C37 772 aircraft across the board, and that the 13 772s with C45 would be reconfigured to C37.
Zodiac was unable to manufacture the seat in sufficient quantity to satisfy their contract with AA. The 772 refit was stalled, and some early 787-8s sat on the ground seatless. AA was upset at deriving no revenue from them but having to pay for the idled aircraft.
AA sued and terminated the contract with Zodiac, and let the seats contract for remaining seats to B/E Aerospace (purchased in 2017 by Rockwell Collins).
AA also decided to refit 772s and 788s with Premium Economy as well as to standardize the Zodiac subfleet to C37. The last two C45 Zodiac 772s were in the shop at KPAE getting refitted to C37 and PE as of early December 2018.
Related threads
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Super Diamond seat
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
Boeing 777-200ER / 777 Best Premium Economy
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac Main Cabin & Extra / MCE
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777" C37 Super Diamond Economy / Main Cabin & Extra MCE
Aircraft guide: Which 777-200ER / 772 / 777? (2019 on)
Dec 13, 2018, 3:16 pm
#17
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
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Posts: 62,948
If you look at the AA fleet site, you can match the registration number to type of business seat...
https://sites.google.com/site/newame...eing-777-200er
https://sites.google.com/site/newame...eing-777-200er
Last edited by JDiver; Dec 18, 2018 at 3:58 pm
Dec 18, 2018, 11:33 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SAN, MIA, GOT
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 349
I am confused. Flightradar24 has N781AN scheduled for Dec 20th Bcn-Mia and supposed to have Zodiac seats according the AA fleet site above but simulating the same seat map on AA shows seats without notches. What am I missing?
Dec 18, 2018, 12:04 pm
#20
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Or it could be an AA website issue. It is mentioned earlier in the thread that the seat map is always shown without notches until about 48 hours before the flight, at which time it gets updated if a Zodiac aircraft is assigned. Both the inbound (AA66 on 12/19) and AA113 on 12/20 are more than 48 hours away. It's possible that the Flightradar24 information is correct, but the AA site doesn't show the correct info yet.
If you check the seat map for earlier flights using N781AN, the AA website shows the notches, so it is safe to assume that the aircraft does indeed have Zodiac seats, as is also stated on the fleet site.
Last edited by GFrye; Dec 18, 2018 at 12:35 pm
Dec 19, 2018, 12:16 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SAN, MIA, GOT
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 349
You were right, the notches did appear within the 48hr window. thanks for that detail. Also seems that flightradar24 is correct with plane number ^
Dec 19, 2018, 12:24 pm
#23
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA GLD, Marriott PLT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,900
Does anyone have a list of the city pairs that are typically assigned a specific seat type (Zodiac vs. Super Diamond). I'm just curious. It SEEMS to me based on the comments here in this thread and others about the Zodiac seat is that the Super Diamond is generally preferred? Is that right?
I did fly on a 787-8 recently. When trying to figure out my seat, I saw the stuff about the "motion over the ocean". So, I believe I was in a Zodiac seat. The route I flew was DFW-LAS. So, short flight. No ocean. It was an early morning flight too. I think MAYBE at one point I felt what may have been the "motion over the ocean [sand]" I can't exactly recall my seat config at the time. Wether it was in flat bed mode or reclined mode. Anyway, I thought for the most part, the seat was fine. I actually liked having my head close to the window. I liked not needing a shoulder belt. I also thought that when the seat was in bed mode, it seemed to be a bit more smooth than the J seats on the 777-300. If there was any complaint I had for my flight, it was I felt storage within the seat itself was a bit limited compared to the 777-300 J seat I have flown on 4 times (DFW-LHR)
So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
I did fly on a 787-8 recently. When trying to figure out my seat, I saw the stuff about the "motion over the ocean". So, I believe I was in a Zodiac seat. The route I flew was DFW-LAS. So, short flight. No ocean. It was an early morning flight too. I think MAYBE at one point I felt what may have been the "motion over the ocean [sand]" I can't exactly recall my seat config at the time. Wether it was in flat bed mode or reclined mode. Anyway, I thought for the most part, the seat was fine. I actually liked having my head close to the window. I liked not needing a shoulder belt. I also thought that when the seat was in bed mode, it seemed to be a bit more smooth than the J seats on the 777-300. If there was any complaint I had for my flight, it was I felt storage within the seat itself was a bit limited compared to the 777-300 J seat I have flown on 4 times (DFW-LHR)
So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
Dec 19, 2018, 12:50 pm
#24
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I did fly on a 787-8 recently. When trying to figure out my seat, I saw the stuff about the "motion over the ocean". So, I believe I was in a Zodiac seat.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
Last edited by GFrye; Dec 19, 2018 at 1:04 pm
Dec 19, 2018, 1:03 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA GLD, Marriott PLT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,900
Ok.. Thanks for taking time to reply. For me, the backwards flying wasn't an issue. Really, I think if you like to look out the window, a backwards facing Zodiac seat would be "better" assuming you don't have issues with backwards facing. really, since it was my first time on a 787, I jsut had to experience the "massive" windows. 
. To me, that seems to be the one plus for the Zodiac. I know the times I flew the 777-300, I would have to lean well forward to look out the window. Of course thats not usually an issue on an overnight flight to Europe. It's dark most of the time. But with the arrival pattern, you can get some nice views of London!
I did check out some other threads and found pics of the Super Diamond seat. Yeah, it certainly seems much better on the storage front. I also like how the TV screen is setup so it's fixed to always face you.. No need to stow it for taxi/takeoff/landing. thats always nice.
To my original question, maybe it's not really based on city pairs? Like its not always that say, just making this up, DFW-CDG is "always" Zodiac and DFW-NRT is "always" Diamond. Seems like that there can still be a mix. Not that I would be likely to AVOID a destination over something like this.
. To me, that seems to be the one plus for the Zodiac. I know the times I flew the 777-300, I would have to lean well forward to look out the window. Of course thats not usually an issue on an overnight flight to Europe. It's dark most of the time. But with the arrival pattern, you can get some nice views of London! I did check out some other threads and found pics of the Super Diamond seat. Yeah, it certainly seems much better on the storage front. I also like how the TV screen is setup so it's fixed to always face you.. No need to stow it for taxi/takeoff/landing. thats always nice.
To my original question, maybe it's not really based on city pairs? Like its not always that say, just making this up, DFW-CDG is "always" Zodiac and DFW-NRT is "always" Diamond. Seems like that there can still be a mix. Not that I would be likely to AVOID a destination over something like this.
Dec 19, 2018, 1:10 pm
#26
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
- poor “fit and finish” problems
- “motion over the ocean” motion induced by attached seats
- inoperable privacy dividers
- yin-yang seats some passengers really don’t like
- orphan product not likely to get good support and parts
- I’ve experienced seat mechanism breakdowns
If AA manages to engineer solutions to MOO and dividers, have them STCd by the FAA and actually implement them, I’d still prefer the Super Diamond seat.
I’m less than thrilled at the prospect of having 772 and 788 subfleets, equipment change and seat change shenanigans.
Dec 19, 2018, 1:39 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA GLD, Marriott PLT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,900
Thanks for taking time to explain. Really, I love that J seat on the 77W. Really don't understand why that couldn't have been the J seat on ALL 787s. Hopefullly, I'll get to experience this 772 Super Diamond seat sometime soon in the near future.
Dec 19, 2018, 2:17 pm
#28
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
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Posts: 62,948
The Super Diamond is also on the 789, and I suspect it will be on the next tranche of 22 (iirc) 788 deliveries (as well as the new 789 deliveries). But I agree with you about the 77W Zodiac “Cirrus” - I think we’d all have loved that seat on the 772s and 787s.
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 17, 2019 at 4:05 pm
Jan 17, 2019, 12:41 pm
#30
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It is mentioned earlier in the thread that the seat map is always shown without notches until about 48 hours before the flight, at which time it gets updated if a Zodiac aircraft is assigned. It's possible that the Flightradar24 information is correct, but the AA site doesn't show the correct info yet.
