Dec 10, 2018, 1:52 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Which Boeing 777-200ER will I have?
AA has a fleet of 47 Boeing 777-223ER aircraft configured with 37 Business, 24 Premium Economy and 212 Main Cabin seats, including 66 Main Cabin Extra (including exit rows) seats. With the mixed 19 Zodiac vs 28 Super Diamond 772 fleet, Business travelers will be at risk of an aircraft substitution from one to the other, though apparently Dispatch prefers keeping the same subtype on certain routes; in cases of OSO, etc. one type may be substituted for another, even without notice (some FT members have reported such).
Link to list of airframes by registration number and configuration in (unofficial) AA fleet pages.
NOTE: it has been reported aa.com seat charts will usually show “no notches”, IMO, Super Diamond seats, until 48 hours from departure time. At that time, Zodiac equipped aircraft seat charts will display notches on aft-facing seats.
110 VAC universal plug and 5 VDC USB
Panasonic International satellite based WiFi (fee)
ExTV IFE for every seat
Business cabin notes
Version 1
19 aircraft are fitted with 37 Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in yin-yang configuration (the inoperable privacy divider and induced motion from seats “tied at the head” aka “Motion over the ocean” are supposed to be remediate by AA)
Version 2
28 aircraft are fitted with 37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business suites in an angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration
Premium Economy notes
24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration
Main Cabin Extra notes
66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration
Main Cabin notes
148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch in a 3-4-3 configuration
Why two configurations?
All 47 772s were all to have been configured with 45 Zodiac Concept D Business Suites in a yin-yang configuration, some with C45, most with C37. The same seat was to be installed in AA Boeing 787-8 and -9 aircraft.
The C45 decision was made before the reverse takeover of AA by US. The decision was changed to go to a C37 772 aircraft across the board, and that the 13 772s with C45 would be reconfigured to C37.
Zodiac was unable to manufacture the seat in sufficient quantity to satisfy their contract with AA. The 772 refit was stalled, and some early 787-8s sat on the ground seatless. AA was upset at deriving no revenue from them but having to pay for the idled aircraft.
AA sued and terminated the contract with Zodiac, and let the seats contract for remaining seats to B/E Aerospace (purchased in 2017 by Rockwell Collins).
AA also decided to refit 772s and 788s with Premium Economy as well as to standardize the Zodiac subfleet to C37. The last two C45 Zodiac 772s were in the shop at KPAE getting refitted to C37 and PE as of early December 2018.
Related threads
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Super Diamond seat
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
Boeing 777-200ER / 777 Best Premium Economy
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac Main Cabin & Extra / MCE
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777" C37 Super Diamond Economy / Main Cabin & Extra MCE
AA has a fleet of 47 Boeing 777-223ER aircraft configured with 37 Business, 24 Premium Economy and 212 Main Cabin seats, including 66 Main Cabin Extra (including exit rows) seats. With the mixed 19 Zodiac vs 28 Super Diamond 772 fleet, Business travelers will be at risk of an aircraft substitution from one to the other, though apparently Dispatch prefers keeping the same subtype on certain routes; in cases of OSO, etc. one type may be substituted for another, even without notice (some FT members have reported such).
Link to list of airframes by registration number and configuration in (unofficial) AA fleet pages.
NOTE: it has been reported aa.com seat charts will usually show “no notches”, IMO, Super Diamond seats, until 48 hours from departure time. At that time, Zodiac equipped aircraft seat charts will display notches on aft-facing seats.
110 VAC universal plug and 5 VDC USB
Panasonic International satellite based WiFi (fee)
ExTV IFE for every seat
Business cabin notes
Version 1
19 aircraft are fitted with 37 Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in yin-yang configuration (the inoperable privacy divider and induced motion from seats “tied at the head” aka “Motion over the ocean” are supposed to be remediate by AA)
Version 2
28 aircraft are fitted with 37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business suites in an angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration
Premium Economy notes
24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration
Main Cabin Extra notes
66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration
Main Cabin notes
148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch in a 3-4-3 configuration
Why two configurations?
All 47 772s were all to have been configured with 45 Zodiac Concept D Business Suites in a yin-yang configuration, some with C45, most with C37. The same seat was to be installed in AA Boeing 787-8 and -9 aircraft.
The C45 decision was made before the reverse takeover of AA by US. The decision was changed to go to a C37 772 aircraft across the board, and that the 13 772s with C45 would be reconfigured to C37.
Zodiac was unable to manufacture the seat in sufficient quantity to satisfy their contract with AA. The 772 refit was stalled, and some early 787-8s sat on the ground seatless. AA was upset at deriving no revenue from them but having to pay for the idled aircraft.
AA sued and terminated the contract with Zodiac, and let the seats contract for remaining seats to B/E Aerospace (purchased in 2017 by Rockwell Collins).
AA also decided to refit 772s and 788s with Premium Economy as well as to standardize the Zodiac subfleet to C37. The last two C45 Zodiac 772s were in the shop at KPAE getting refitted to C37 and PE as of early December 2018.
Related threads
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Super Diamond seat
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
Boeing 777-200ER / 777 Best Premium Economy
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac Main Cabin & Extra / MCE
Best Economy Seat 777-200 “777" C37 Super Diamond Economy / Main Cabin & Extra MCE
Aircraft guide: Which 777-200ER / 772 / 777? (2019 on)
Jul 22, 2019, 8:16 am
#61
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
The Zodiac seats are not that bad. I've never had an issue of discomfort with them from the "rocking" problem, and in some ways they are better than the Super Diamond, as they have more unrestricted space.
Jul 22, 2019, 12:05 pm
#62
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Unfortunately it's not that simple. Only 5 out of the 37 business class seats are not "rockers" (connected to another seat). Again, I don't know any airline that would sell a business class seat that is rear-facing without making that clear during the reservation process and seat selection.
AA don’t try to hide the aircraft type. They have 47 772s, and they were all to be provided with Zodiac seats. The manufacturer was unable to deliver the sears, both setting back the 772 refit and leaving AA with brand new 787-8s parked in the desert awaiting seats. AA cancelled the Zodiac contract and, after vetting manufacturers and establishing a new contract, purchased the Rockwell Collins Super Diamond seats.
So: 19 aircraft with Zodiacs, 28 with Super Diamonds. Both configured C37, W24, MCE66, Y146. Dispatch is pretty much according to aircraft positioning and availability in most cases, and as the SDs predominate, only when it is known which 772 version is going to fly specific flights are seat maps with notched Zode seats shown, ~48 hours out.
The Zodiacs are still more comfortable than some competitors’ products.
Jul 22, 2019, 12:43 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Actually, AA do make it clear which are aft-facing seats. The seat charts for AA show a distinct notch in the graphic used to illustrate the individual seat to denote aft facing seats.
AA don’t try to hide the aircraft type. They have 47 772s, and they were all to be provided with Zodiac seats. The manufacturer was unable to deliver the sears, both setting back the 772 refit and leaving AA with brand new 787-8s parked in the desert awaiting seats. AA cancelled the Zodiac contract and, after vetting manufacturers and establishing a new contract, purchased the Rockwell Collins Super Diamond seats.
So: 19 aircraft with Zodiacs, 28 with Super Diamonds. Both configured C37, W24, MCE66, Y146. Dispatch is pretty much according to aircraft positioning and availability in most cases, and as the SDs predominate, only when it is known which 772 version is going to fly specific flights are seat maps with notched Zode seats shown, ~48 hours out.
The Zodiacs are still more comfortable than some competitors’ products.
AA don’t try to hide the aircraft type. They have 47 772s, and they were all to be provided with Zodiac seats. The manufacturer was unable to deliver the sears, both setting back the 772 refit and leaving AA with brand new 787-8s parked in the desert awaiting seats. AA cancelled the Zodiac contract and, after vetting manufacturers and establishing a new contract, purchased the Rockwell Collins Super Diamond seats.
So: 19 aircraft with Zodiacs, 28 with Super Diamonds. Both configured C37, W24, MCE66, Y146. Dispatch is pretty much according to aircraft positioning and availability in most cases, and as the SDs predominate, only when it is known which 772 version is going to fly specific flights are seat maps with notched Zode seats shown, ~48 hours out.
The Zodiacs are still more comfortable than some competitors’ products.
"REVIEW: A word of warning - the herringbone configuration in these American 700-200 Version 1s is truly awful. The seats are joined and if your adjoining seat is occupied by a larger person you will feel their every movement and sleep will be difficult or impossible. I experienced this on no less than 3 flights on a trip recently all in seat 2A - AA135 LHR-LAX, AA102 HNL-DFW and AA78 DFW-LHR. There are a limited number of 'unjoined' seats not affected by this including 1A but this was reserved for crew rest. Will never fly this configuration again on an American 777 and will stick to 700-200 v2 or 777-300 !!"
"REVIEW: I DESPISE the business class seats on this plane. It appears as if the seats that are directly ahead/behind of each other are connected somehow. Thus, EVERY SINGLE TIME the person behind you moves, sits down abruptly, you will feel it. Terrible design."
Jul 22, 2019, 1:03 pm
#64
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
"REVIEW: A word of warning - the herringbone configuration in these American 700-200 Version 1s is truly awful. The seats are joined and if your adjoining seat is occupied by a larger person you will feel their every movement and sleep will be difficult or impossible. I experienced this on no less than 3 flights on a trip recently all in seat 2A - AA135 LHR-LAX, AA102 HNL-DFW and AA78 DFW-LHR. There are a limited number of 'unjoined' seats not affected by this including 1A but this was reserved for crew rest. Will never fly this configuration again on an American 777 and will stick to 700-200 v2 or 777-300 !!"
"REVIEW: I DESPISE the business class seats on this plane. It appears as if the seats that are directly ahead/behind of each other are connected somehow. Thus, EVERY SINGLE TIME the person behind you moves, sits down abruptly, you will feel it. Terrible design."
"REVIEW: I DESPISE the business class seats on this plane. It appears as if the seats that are directly ahead/behind of each other are connected somehow. Thus, EVERY SINGLE TIME the person behind you moves, sits down abruptly, you will feel it. Terrible design."
You can read FT feedback here, which is likely a lot more trustworthy than wherever you read these reviews:
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
I've personally always slept well in the Zodiac seats. The "motion" issue is much less when the seats are fully reclined, also.
Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Programs: DL DM, Ex-AA EXP, HZ Pres, MRT AMB/LTP
Posts: 130
I'm still unclear which aircraft we will be flying on our trip in Nov. JFK/LHR. Flights are currently AA142 and AA105, originally the AA105 was a 77W, but that has now been changed to the 772. I used SWU for the return, already confirmed, however there is zero open space currently on the outbound. Should I be calling to switch or sit tight in 2D,2H. I'm traveling with my wife who gets motion sickness and would like to avoid any complications. Thanks.
Aug 5, 2019, 4:56 pm
#66
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
I'm still unclear which aircraft we will be flying on our trip in Nov. JFK/LHR. Flights are currently AA142 and AA105, originally the AA105 was a 77W, but that has now been changed to the 772. I used SWU for the return, already confirmed, however there is zero open space currently on the outbound. Should I be calling to switch or sit tight in 2D,2H. I'm traveling with my wife who gets motion sickness and would like to avoid any complications. Thanks.
i have motion sickness usually when in the car but I didn’t notice any difference when flying backwards faving seat on 772 or 788
Dec 12, 2019, 4:12 pm
#67
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
PE on the 772
does anyone know the set up for the IFE for Row 13 (Bulkhead) is the screen on the wall or is it stored under the seat? Reason I ask is if its on an arm under the seat Id take Row 15, this way I can use it during take-off and landing. If its not stored under the seat I will take Row 13 for the extra leg room
Dec 12, 2019, 4:14 pm
#68
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,285
does anyone know the set up for the IFE for Row 13 (Bulkhead) is the screen on the wall or is it stored under the seat? Reason I ask is if its on an arm under the seat Id take Row 15, this way I can use it during take-off and landing. If its not stored under the seat I will take Row 13 for the extra leg room
Dec 17, 2019, 2:18 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,481
So if AA shows no notch in the seatplan -- this is flight #71 listed in a 772 for Oct 2020 -- what are the chances that one is safe from the forward-reverse inferior product?
All flights will show the no notches, all forward facing config until a few days before the flight when the specific aircraft that will fly the route is more closely known. Only then will AA add the notches to indicate a Zodiac equipped aircraft is scheduled to operate the flight, but even this can change right up to the day of departure.
Dec 17, 2019, 9:00 pm
#72
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: Chase, United
Posts: 403
Zero chance that you are "safe".
All flights will show the no notches, all forward facing config until a few days before the flight when the specific aircraft that will fly the route is more closely known. Only then will AA add the notches to indicate a Zodiac equipped aircraft is scheduled to operate the flight, but even this can change right up to the day of departure.
All flights will show the no notches, all forward facing config until a few days before the flight when the specific aircraft that will fly the route is more closely known. Only then will AA add the notches to indicate a Zodiac equipped aircraft is scheduled to operate the flight, but even this can change right up to the day of departure.
Dec 18, 2019, 6:17 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,481
The only exception to the above is the annoying rocking issue that can happen on some airplanes, many of the Zodiac seats are connected at the hip to your neighbor and will vibrate/shake at certain points when your neighbor moves their seat position. Take a look at the below thread to get an idea, and also the seats you can select that are not connected to prevent it...
Best Business Seat 777-200 “777” C37 Zodiac (Aft & Fwd) Business
Dec 18, 2019, 3:59 pm
#74
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: Chase, United
Posts: 403
Quality-wise the forward-backward Zodiac config is every bit on par with pretty much any of the newer crop of business seats out there (with one exception, see below). Sure there are minor nuances between seats but at the end of the day it's a full lie flat seat, all aisle access in a 1-2-1 config, updated IFE system with full power, etc.
The only exception to the above is the annoying rocking issue that can happen on some airplanes...
The only exception to the above is the annoying rocking issue that can happen on some airplanes...