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Aircraft guide: Which 777-200ER / 772 / 777? (2019 on)

Aircraft guide: Which 777-200ER / 772 / 777? (2019 on)

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Old Mar 31, 19, 2:20 am   -   Wikipost
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Which Boeing 777-200ER / 772 / “777” will I have?

As of 11 December 2018, AA has a fleet of 47 Boeing 777-223ER aircraft configured with 37 Business, 24 Premium Economy and 212 Main Cabin seats, including 66 Main Cabin Extra (including exit rows) seats. With the mixed 19 Zodiac vs 28 Super Diamond 772 fleet, Business travelers will be at risk of an aircraft substitution from one to the other, though apparently Dispatch prefers keeping the same subtype on certain routes; in cases of OSO, etc. one type may be substituted for another, even without notice (some FT members have reported such).

NOTE: As of April 1 2019, Seatguru still shows a Zodiac seat chart with 45 J seats, and no Premium Economy. This is incorrect as of late November 2018. All AA 772s have 37 J and 24 W regardless of Business seat used.

See illustrations in post #1.

Link to list of airframes by registration number and configuration in (unofficial) AA fleet pages.

The final two Boeing 777-200 left to be retrofit (aircraft registrations N759AN and N795AN) entered the shop at the end of November 2018. With these out of refitting, all 777-200s operating going forward have the following configuration:

37 Business (1-2-1 arrangement)
24 Premium Economy (2-4-2)
66 Main Cabin Extra (3-4-3)
146 Economy (3-4-3)

NOTE: it has been reported aa.com seat charts will usually show “no notches”, IMO, Super Diamond seats, until 48 hours from departure time. At that time, Zodiac equipped aircraft seat charts will display notches on aft-facing seats.

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link to American Airlines Retrofits Its 100th Widebody Aircraft With Premium Economy, The Points Guy, 5 Dec 2018

19 “Zodiac” 772s configured as follows

  • 37 Zodiac Concept D Business Suite in yin-yang configuration (the inoperable privacy divider and induced motion from seats “tied at the head” aka “Motion over the ocean” are supposed to be remediate by AA) (link to incorrect SeatGuru seat chart showing discontinued C cabin with 45 Business seats. ALL flying Zodiac 772s have been standardized to C37 and Premium Economy. C / Business seating is only accurate through row 10, after which there is Premium Economy installed.)

    To determine which 777200ER subtype you’ll have, if you know the registration number you can look it up in the (unofficial) AA Fleet Site here.

    NOTE: On aa.com, seat charts make it difficult to identify which 777 has Zodiac or B/E Aerospace seats. See post #1 for the AA seat diagrams of the 777 Business cabins. If the available (blue) seats have a notch in the front signifying aft (backward) facing seats, it’s a Zodiac “Concept D” Business Suite equipped aircraft.
  • 24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration

  • 66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration

  • 148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration

28 “Super Diamond” 772s configured as follows (link to SeatGuru seat chart)

The final two Boeing 777-200 left to be retrofit (aircraft registrations N759AN and N795AN) entered the shop at the end of November. - The Points Guy, 5 Dec 2018 (link)
  • 37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond Business suites in an angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration

  • 24 AA Rockwell Collins MiQ Premium Economy seats (only bulkhead Seats have legrests) in a 2-4-2 configuration

  • 66 Main Cabin Extra economy seats with extended seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration

  • 148 Main Cabin economy seats with standard 31-32” seat pitch / leg room in a 3-4-3 configuration

Why two configurations?

All 47 772s were all to have been configured with 45 Zodiac Concept D Business Suites in a yin-yang configuration, some with C45, most with C37. The same seat was to be installed in AA Boeing 787-8 and -9 aircraft.

The C45 decision was made before the reverse takeover of AA by US. The decision was changed to go to a C37 772 aircraft across the board, and that the 13 772s with C45 would be reconfigured to C37.

Zodiac was unable to manufacture the seat in sufficient quantity to satisfy their contract with AA. The 772 refit was stalled, and some early 787-8s sat on the ground seatless. AA was upset at deriving no revenue from them but having to pay for the idled aircraft.

AA sued and terminated the contract with Zodiac, and let the seats contract for remaining seats to B/E Aerospace (purchased in 2017 by Rockwell Collins).

AA also decided to refit 772s and 788s with Premium Economy as well as to standardize the Zodiac subfleet to C37. The last two C45 Zodiac 772s were in the shop at KPAE getting refitted to C37 and PE as of early December 2018.

The result is:

Boeing 777-223ER / 772 (“777” on aa.com)

19 with C37 Zodiac seats in yin-yang configuration

28 with C37 B/E Aerospace Super Diamond in an all angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration

Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner (788)

Currently all with Zodiac seats in yin-yang configuration (new deliveries are expected to have Super Diamonds, splitting the 788 fleet into two subfleets)

Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner

All with B/E Aerospace Super Diamond in an all angled forward facing reverse herringbone configuration
There are threads dedicated to each aircraft and Business seat type.


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Old Dec 13, 18, 2:51 pm
  #16  
 
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Thanks!
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Old Dec 13, 18, 3:16 pm
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Originally Posted by JJeffrey View Post
If you look at the AA fleet site, you can match the registration number to type of business seat...

https://sites.google.com/site/newame...eing-777-200er
And I added that to the Wikipost.

Last edited by JDiver; Dec 18, 18 at 3:58 pm
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Old Dec 15, 18, 1:15 pm
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I'm flying on N783AN tomorrow, I am correct that this will be Super Diamond all forward facing?
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Old Dec 18, 18, 11:33 am
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I am confused. Flightradar24 has N781AN scheduled for Dec 20th Bcn-Mia and supposed to have Zodiac seats according the AA fleet site above but simulating the same seat map on AA shows seats without notches. What am I missing?
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Old Dec 18, 18, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by DreamTrip View Post
I am confused. Flightradar24 has N781AN scheduled for Dec 20th Bcn-Mia and supposed to have Zodiac seats according the AA fleet site above but simulating the same seat map on AA shows seats without notches. What am I missing?




Flightradar24 may not have the correct aircraft information. If you check the seat map for the inbound flight (AA66 on 12/19) on the AA website, it doesn't show the notches for that flight either.

Or it could be an AA website issue. It is mentioned earlier in the thread that the seat map is always shown without notches until about 48 hours before the flight, at which time it gets updated if a Zodiac aircraft is assigned. Both the inbound (AA66 on 12/19) and AA113 on 12/20 are more than 48 hours away. It's possible that the Flightradar24 information is correct, but the AA site doesn't show the correct info yet.
Originally Posted by dkc192 View Post
it won't be known which J seat you will get until ~48h before departure. At that point, if your flight has been assigned an aircraft with Concept D seats, your seatmap will be updated to show little notches in the backward facing seats.
If you check the seat map for earlier flights using N781AN, the AA website shows the notches, so it is safe to assume that the aircraft does indeed have Zodiac seats, as is also stated on the fleet site.
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Last edited by GFrye; Dec 18, 18 at 12:35 pm
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Old Dec 19, 18, 9:44 am
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I can't see the AA website seat map for AA113 (BCN-MIA) on 12/20 because it may be sold out (?), but the incoming flight (AA66 on 12/19) shows the notches now.
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Old Dec 19, 18, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by GFrye View Post
I can't see the AA website seat map for AA113 (BCN-MIA) on 12/20 because it may be sold out (?), but the incoming flight (AA66 on 12/19) shows the notches now.
You were right, the notches did appear within the 48hr window. thanks for that detail. Also seems that flightradar24 is correct with plane number
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Old Dec 19, 18, 12:24 pm
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Does anyone have a list of the city pairs that are typically assigned a specific seat type (Zodiac vs. Super Diamond). I'm just curious. It SEEMS to me based on the comments here in this thread and others about the Zodiac seat is that the Super Diamond is generally preferred? Is that right?

I did fly on a 787-8 recently. When trying to figure out my seat, I saw the stuff about the "motion over the ocean". So, I believe I was in a Zodiac seat. The route I flew was DFW-LAS. So, short flight. No ocean. It was an early morning flight too. I think MAYBE at one point I felt what may have been the "motion over the ocean [sand]" I can't exactly recall my seat config at the time. Wether it was in flat bed mode or reclined mode. Anyway, I thought for the most part, the seat was fine. I actually liked having my head close to the window. I liked not needing a shoulder belt. I also thought that when the seat was in bed mode, it seemed to be a bit more smooth than the J seats on the 777-300. If there was any complaint I had for my flight, it was I felt storage within the seat itself was a bit limited compared to the 777-300 J seat I have flown on 4 times (DFW-LHR)

So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
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Old Dec 19, 18, 12:50 pm
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Originally Posted by jsmeeker View Post
Does anyone have a list of the city pairs that are typically assigned a specific seat type (Zodiac vs. Super Diamond).
I have followed one particular route that I will fly soon, trying to figure out my odds. Looking at ~3 weeks of data, it's 60% Super Diamond and 40% Zodiac, which exactly matches the total number of aircraft for each type. So those seems to be the odds, at least for that route. I tried to figure out if one type was more likely on any particular weekday, but there's no clear correlation between weekday and seat type.

I did fly on a 787-8 recently. When trying to figure out my seat, I saw the stuff about the "motion over the ocean". So, I believe I was in a Zodiac seat.
Yes, it was.
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So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
"Motion over the ocean" and some people don't like flying facing backwards.

Last edited by GFrye; Dec 19, 18 at 1:04 pm
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Old Dec 19, 18, 1:03 pm
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Ok.. Thanks for taking time to reply. For me, the backwards flying wasn't an issue. Really, I think if you like to look out the window, a backwards facing Zodiac seat would be "better" assuming you don't have issues with backwards facing. really, since it was my first time on a 787, I jsut had to experience the "massive" windows. . To me, that seems to be the one plus for the Zodiac. I know the times I flew the 777-300, I would have to lean well forward to look out the window. Of course thats not usually an issue on an overnight flight to Europe. It's dark most of the time. But with the arrival pattern, you can get some nice views of London!

I did check out some other threads and found pics of the Super Diamond seat. Yeah, it certainly seems much better on the storage front. I also like how the TV screen is setup so it's fixed to always face you.. No need to stow it for taxi/takeoff/landing. thats always nice.

To my original question, maybe it's not really based on city pairs? Like its not always that say, just making this up, DFW-CDG is "always" Zodiac and DFW-NRT is "always" Diamond. Seems like that there can still be a mix. Not that I would be likely to AVOID a destination over something like this.
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Old Dec 19, 18, 1:10 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by jsmeeker View Post
...<snip>

So, really, is the main issue with the Zodiac the "motion over the ocean"? And if AA actually manages to correct this, do the concerns go away? Or does the Super Diamond seat still remain preferred.?
In my opinion from flying both, the Collins Aerospace née B/E Aerospace Super Diamond is a superior seat product to the Zodiac Concept D Business Suite for several reasons. The Zodiacs I’ve sat in have experienced
  • poor “fit and finish” problems
  • “motion over the ocean” motion induced by attached seats
  • inoperable privacy dividers
  • yin-yang seats some passengers really don’t like
  • orphan product not likely to get good support and parts
  • I’ve experienced seat mechanism breakdowns

If AA manages to engineer solutions to MOO and dividers, have them STCd by the FAA and actually implement them, I’d still prefer the Super Diamond seat.

I’m less than thrilled at the prospect of having 772 and 788 subfleets, equipment change and seat change shenanigans.
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Old Dec 19, 18, 1:39 pm
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Thanks for taking time to explain. Really, I love that J seat on the 77W. Really don't understand why that couldn't have been the J seat on ALL 787s. Hopefullly, I'll get to experience this 772 Super Diamond seat sometime soon in the near future.
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Old Dec 19, 18, 2:17 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jsmeeker View Post
Thanks for taking time to explain. Really, I love that J seat on the 77W. Really don't understand why that couldn't have been the J seat on ALL 787s. Hopefullly, I'll get to experience this 772 Super Diamond seat sometime soon in the near future.
The Super Diamond is also on the 789, and I suspect it will be on the next tranche of 22 (iirc) 788 deliveries (as well as the new 789 deliveries). But I agree with you about the 77W Zodiac “Cirrus” - I think we’d all have loved that seat on the 772s and 787s.

Last edited by JDiver; Jan 17, 19 at 4:05 pm
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Old Jan 17, 19, 11:11 am
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I am confused. Flightradar24 has N774AN scheduled for Jan 19th DFW-OGG to have Zodiac seats but according to the seat map on AA it shows seats without notches. Any idea on what type seats my plane will have?
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Old Jan 17, 19, 12:41 pm
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Originally Posted by jiffer21225 View Post
I am confused. Flightradar24 has N774AN scheduled for Jan 19th DFW-OGG to have Zodiac seats but according to the seat map on AA it shows seats without notches. Any idea on what type seats my plane will have?
Originally Posted by GFrye View Post
It is mentioned earlier in the thread that the seat map is always shown without notches until about 48 hours before the flight, at which time it gets updated if a Zodiac aircraft is assigned. It's possible that the Flightradar24 information is correct, but the AA site doesn't show the correct info yet.
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