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-   -   Boeing 737 MAX 8 crashes and effects on AA 737 MAX 8s (NOT reaccommodation) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1939333-boeing-737-max-8-crashes-effects-aa-737-max-8s-not-reaccommodation.html)

84fiero Dec 18, 19 8:07 am

As 737 MAX’s return slips out to mid-February, FAA boss tells Boeing CEO to back off predictions


In a starkly direct rebuke to Boeing, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) chief Steve Dickson met with company CEO Dennis Muilenburg at FAA headquarters in Washington, D.C., on Thursday and told him to pull back on public statements about an imminent return to service for the 737 MAX — a milestone that people close to the details now say is unlikely to happen before mid-February.

JDiver Dec 23, 19 8:42 am

3 Attachment(s)
Finally! He was the Captain when Boeing lost its course, shifting its priorities from excellence and safety to cost reduction without context.

Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg SACKED by the Board of Directors.


Boeing said in a statement that its board of directors “decided that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company moving forward as it works to repair relationships with regulators, customers, and all other stakeholders.”
United has scheduled MAX aircraft beginning 6 June 2020, hoping the MAX recertification will allow them to fly the MAX during the busy summer season. AA hasn’t yet announced a date that far out, but it probably can be expected. The entire recertification program hasn’t been finalized, much less accepted by the various world aviation authorities. Once that occurs, modifications can occur, “de-mothballing” and flight testing can begin.

DenverBrian Dec 23, 19 10:46 am

Interestingly, it might be the Starliner wrong-orbit error, not the 737MAX per se, that finally got this guy out the door.

JDiver Dec 23, 19 10:48 am


Originally Posted by DenverBrian (Post 31869406)
Interestingly, it might be the Starliner wrong-orbit error, not the 737MAX per se, that finally got this guy out the door.

Perhaps, but Iíve never seen a Board of Directors respond that quickly - even if had been the straw that broke their back.

AA100k Dec 23, 19 11:42 am

I sure wouldn’t want the new CEO’s job. Restoring confidence in Boeing and the MAX seems nearly impossible at this point.

jayer Dec 23, 19 4:16 pm

I was told months ago by friends in the local Grey Eagles (retired AA captains) their collective opinion was Boeing was concentrating on an electronic fix when what is needed is a more basic mechanical change to compensate for the unforeseen center of gravity problem. Meaning they agree with the original chief test pilot. (Funny thing--whatever happened to him after he made that recommendation? Since apparently he is long since out of that position). Their industry sources are active AA pilots.

Didn't think too much about it when first repeated to me, since they are still McDonnell Douglas loyalists with a long-held distrust of over-automated flying. But time is making them look wise.

84fiero Jan 6, 20 11:02 am

More bad news for the MAX, this time a separate issue...

FAA checking potentially "catastrophic" issue with 737 Max wiring


The Federal Aviation Administration is looking at a potentially "catastrophic" issue with wiring that helps control the tail of the 737 Max, CBS News has confirmed. The safety review was first reported by the New York Times and confirmed by Boeing officials.

It grew out of an FAA request to Boeing for an internal audit to confirm the company had accurately assessed the dangers of key systems in light of new assumptions about pilot response times to emergency situations.

cmd320 Jan 6, 20 11:33 am

Does lemon law apply to aircraft?

formeraa Jan 6, 20 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by 84fiero (Post 31915236)
More bad news for the MAX, this time a separate issue...

FAA checking potentially "catastrophic" issue with 737 Max wiring

Although this sounds overly dramatic, I'm done defending Boeing's total ineptness with the MAX. Boeing's total inability to "manage" this situation properly says volumes about the current state of the company.

Austin787 Jan 6, 20 4:15 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing and the airlines quietly drop the MAX name, and refer to the plane as 737-7, 737-8, 737-9, and 737-10.

JDiver Jan 6, 20 4:47 pm


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 31916635)
I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing and the airlines quietly drop the MAX name, and refer to the plane as 737-7, 737-8, 737-9, and 737-10.

There already are <MAX> 737-7, -8 and -9. AA has a number of -8s, so that won’t may not work. But there are other possibilities and precedents.

AA flew the L-188 Electra (I flew on a number of those), which was grounded because the wings occasionally fell off (Google “whirl mode” and Lockheed Electra to learn how that worked).

When the Electra was modified and recertified it, AA renamed it “Super Electra”. So, “737 Super”, “737 Advanced”, “737 AT (Advanced Technology)”, etc. are certainly possible.,

Ldnn1 Jan 6, 20 5:10 pm


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 31916635)
I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing and the airlines quietly drop the MAX name...

Ryanair already started down this path back in July: https://www.theguardian.com/business...es-name-change

VegasGambler Jan 6, 20 8:02 pm


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 31916635)
I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing and the airlines quietly drop the MAX name, and refer to the plane as 737-7, 737-8, 737-9, and 737-10.

737 Fireball. They can paint flames on the sides to make it go faster.

I agree that this is most likely overblown, but it just comes across as sloppy. They said that it might also apply to the NGs, which suggests that it's not THAT serious (since they haven't been falling out of the sky) but... I've said it before and I'll say it again: As an engineer with a couple of decades of experience who focuses on quality first, I can see the there are cultural problems at this company that cause the focus to be on speed over quality. I can see it even from the outside; it was obvious even before the whistleblowers started coming forward.

The change in leadership is a good start (because, eventually, this has to come from the top) but it will take a long time to change the culture. It most likely involves changing KPIs, which is not an easy thing to do (you need to evaluate performance based on different criteria). It takes a while to "train" people to get used to the fact that they will be judged based on new criteria. People who are used to being told "good job" when they finish fast will need to adjust to being told "good job" when they actually do a good job, rather than a fast one.

JDiver Jan 6, 20 8:37 pm

@VegasGambler, as someone who worked with many engineers and cultural change, I canít agree more.

Meantime, AA has reached a settlement with Boeing for losses related to 24 AA MAXs being grounded. Link to Bloomberg article.

The numbers are confidential, but AA has earmarked ~$30 million for employees as profit sharing.


The companies are still in talks over compensation for damages beyond 2019, American said in a statement Monday. The Maxís absence since March shaved at least $540 million from Americanís 2019 pretax income, the airline has said, and the benefits from the confidential settlement with Boeing will be received over several years.

ijgordon Jan 6, 20 8:40 pm


Originally Posted by JDiver (Post 31916766)
There already are 737-7, -8 and -9. AA has a number of -8s, so that wonít work.

Actually, no, there are 737-700, -800, and -900s.


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