Lux Flyer

The manager you spoke with explained the wrong policy, they are referencing AA's policy for refunding downgrades on non-EU regulated flights, that is not what you are looking for. I would agree that is an unfair yet legal AA policy, but the manager you spoke with was giving you the correct interpretation of the wrong policy. When they explained they don't know what the EU guidelines are, as most of their employees unfortunately do not since this isn't something a typical CS person handles, you should escalate until someone who does. Now you know there is a department who specializes in EU compensation claims, and since you have contacted them they should be able to get you the correct REFUND you are entitled too; if you feel it necessary, it doesn't hurt to ask for COMPENSATION as well for the inconvenience/bad-will this has caused, however they are not under any obligation to provide it..

I don't think this is AA intentionally giving you the run around, moreso a string of agents who don't know what the legal standards are for EU departing flights. Now that you've gotten to the right people, you might try mentioning how difficult the process was to get in contact with them on the off-chance that the feedback may prompt someone to make the EU claims department more accessible.

erik123

The AA calculation is non-sensical as it would mean each ORD-PHX ticket in F is calculated at 63,885 which is nearly the same as the BCN-ORD sector. I would explian the regulation requires 75% refund of the sector (and any taxes/fees overpaid if any) and that you expect the ORD-PHX to be calculated as 25k (saver) and that the proper calculation is 260-50k = 210 x 75% = 157,500. That sounds fair to me.

Mwenenzi

That was the subject of the OP's other thread on the same trip--->Downgrade from Business to Economy on a Mileage Award ticket
There are recent posts in that thread

Dave Noble

The calculation might be one it can get away with for a flight not departing EU, but for EU de[arture, hold on and get the 95% of the 75% of the miles paid - so approximately another 50,000 miles

since you have claimed now through the EC261 email address, hopefully you will get properly reimbursed

Often1

To keep this in the sphere of the rational, you are entitled to a refund of 75% of the miles paid for the downgraded segment. When you were only downgraded for one segment of a connection, the miles would be calculated based on a distance percentage.

Thus, take MAD-ORD as a percentage of the distance MAD-ORD-DTW, figure 75% of that and you have your refund claim. In addition, if that shift affects any taxes or fees, those should be refunded in cash accordingly.

Bottom line is that even if AA intentionally lied to you and intentionally miscalculated the refund, that does not amount to any semblance of a class action under US law. You can do a whole lot better just sticking to the facts.

SamOF

Are you a lawyer? Do you have any experience whatsoever in consumer protection law? If not, I wouldn't speculate baselessly on these sort of issues.

edfisher

mvoight

You have NOT been communicating with the right representatives. AA has people that deal with EU compensation as indicated someone's post\
As noted, you should get 75 percent of the award miles used for the downgraded segment. That miles for the award segment should be calculated based on the percentage of miles that segment is of the trip

Mwenenzi

Agree

You seem to be asking for a refund. EC261 is about compensation: not refund. They are not the same (but close)

Ask for a refund and that is what you will get. Guess it will be by apportion.
Ask for compensation to EC261 and that is what you will get. EC261 has defined %.
AA link to AA EC261 claim in a post above.

arttravel

Dave Noble

Actually it is the same thing - there is no compensation for a downgrade under EC261, it is a reimbursement of 75% - which is the same as a refund

edfisher

moondog

I won't attempt to read the exec's mind, but a lot of airline people believe that EU 261 is unfair, and are therefore reluctant to help customers do the legwork. Furthermore, mispeaking (e.g. admitting fault) could be used against them.

Often1

This is a simple claim. It is required under EU rules and the terms are spelled out in the Regulation. Downgrades are the easiest. There are no exceptions to the provision as there are with delay compensation and the calculation is simple. This makes the claim short & sweet and AA's EU team is well-trained and (relatively) efficient.

Things slow down and become more contentious on certain complicated claims, but downgrade reimbursement (refund) is not one of them.

ijgordon

Well of course they think it's unfair. If it were up to them, they'd downgrade you on your $2000 advance purchase business class ticket and try to refund the difference to the last-minute coach fare, which is $2500, and so you should be paying them. Fair to them is -- we're moving your flight an hour earlier, deal with it, but when I want to change to the flight an hour earlier they want $200. The big corporation that gets to unilaterally write the contract of carriage doesn't get to decide what's fair to the consumer.