Oct 16, 2018, 12:53 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Under “Project Oasis” all legacy AA Boeing 737-800 / 738 aircraft will join the densely configured 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 go on in the 2020s in their “densified” version with the oversized Boeing Space Bins. The densification began during late 2018 and is expected to be complete sometime in 2021.
See AA 737 MAX 8 SSW / 7M8 aircraft in service Nov 2017 (discussion)
For the A321-200 retrofit program under “Project Oasis” see A321 / 32B old to densified A321 / 32B Oasis Aircraft Swap - Seat loss, etc.
See registration numbers of retrofitted “Oasis” standard aircraft on the (unofficial) AA Fleet site in the two pages of 738s - “classic” and “enhanced” versions.
Those reported as refitted show F16, Y156 (MCE30) and “BSI - SPACE” denoting the new Boeing Space Bins, allowing 60 more carryons per aircraft). The pages also list type of IFE, WiFi, etc.
Types:
100 Boeing 737 MAX 8: (began arriving 2018 “out of the box”)
304 Boeing 737-800 737-800 / 738 (rapidly being retrofitted)
Configuration:
Final “Oasis” configuration: F16, Y156 (of which 30 are MCE) IFE WiFi streaming, Internet WiFi mostly? via ViaSat, seat power 110 VAC universal plug plus 5 VDC USB low output, oversized Space overhead baggage bins.
See here for SeatGuru seat chart.
First / Business: (16 seats in rows numbered 1-4, A , DF) Rockwell Collins MiQ (similar to AA Premium Economy seats without foot rests) with 37” seat pitch. NOTE unrefitted 737s have rows 3-6 in F).
Main Cabin Extra: (30 seats numbered rows 8, 9, 10, 16 and 17, seats ABC and DEF) Rockwell Collins Meridian seats with 33” seat pitch.
Main Cabin: (126 seats numbered rows 11-15 and 18-33) Rockwell Collins Meridian seats with 30” seat pitch.
SeatGuru claims
NOTE: AA does a poor job of retaining your booked or equivalent seats in equipment change situations, which will only increase until 152 aircraft are refitted.
See AA 737 MAX 8 SSW / 7M8 aircraft in service Nov 2017 (discussion)
For the A321-200 retrofit program under “Project Oasis” see A321 / 32B old to densified A321 / 32B Oasis Aircraft Swap - Seat loss, etc.
See registration numbers of retrofitted “Oasis” standard aircraft on the (unofficial) AA Fleet site in the two pages of 738s - “classic” and “enhanced” versions.
Those reported as refitted show F16, Y156 (MCE30) and “BSI - SPACE” denoting the new Boeing Space Bins, allowing 60 more carryons per aircraft). The pages also list type of IFE, WiFi, etc.
Gary Weissel, managing director of Tronos Aviation Consulting Inc., estimated that American could generate about $400,000 a year for each seat it adds to a plane, based on average fares and typical aircraft usage.
100 Boeing 737 MAX 8: (began arriving 2018 “out of the box”)
304 Boeing 737-800 737-800 / 738 (rapidly being retrofitted)
Configuration:
Final “Oasis” configuration: F16, Y156 (of which 30 are MCE) IFE WiFi streaming, Internet WiFi mostly? via ViaSat, seat power 110 VAC universal plug plus 5 VDC USB low output, oversized Space overhead baggage bins.
See here for SeatGuru seat chart.
First / Business: (16 seats in rows numbered 1-4, A , DF) Rockwell Collins MiQ (similar to AA Premium Economy seats without foot rests) with 37” seat pitch. NOTE unrefitted 737s have rows 3-6 in F).
Main Cabin Extra: (30 seats numbered rows 8, 9, 10, 16 and 17, seats ABC and DEF) Rockwell Collins Meridian seats with 33” seat pitch.
Main Cabin: (126 seats numbered rows 11-15 and 18-33) Rockwell Collins Meridian seats with 30” seat pitch.
SeatGuru claims
- First: Pitch 37”, width 21”
- Main Cabin Extra : Pitch 33”, width 16.6-17.8”
- Main Cabin: Pitch 30”, width 16.6-17.8”
NOTE: AA does a poor job of retaining your booked or equivalent seats in equipment change situations, which will only increase until 152 aircraft are refitted.
At shoulder height, the width of Rockwell’s Advanced Spacewall restroom -- made by the company’s B/E Aerospace unit -- is about the same as older economy-class restrooms. The space savings comes around sink level, as the wall curves in to allow a row of three seats to be tucked under the bend. The lavatory, which is just one available option, provides seven inches more of cabin space, according to a Rockwell spokeswoman. The company and several airlines declined to provide full dimensions.
The refitted aircraft sport the new “Spacewall“ ultra slimline lavatory (29” in F, 24” in Y). First / Business seats.
The smaller restrooms as installed “out of the box” on American’s 100 new 737 Max aircraft have prompted employees to dub it the Mini. - Bloomberg, 9 Jun 2018
The refitted aircraft sport the new “Spacewall“ ultra slimline lavatory (29” in F, 24” in Y). First / Business seats.
The smaller restrooms as installed “out of the box” on American’s 100 new 737 Max aircraft have prompted employees to dub it the Mini. - Bloomberg, 9 Jun 2018
FOR LIST OF CONVERTED Boeing 737-800 aircraft to densified 737-800 / 738 “Oasis” (all 737 MAX 8 / 7M8 aircraft arrive in the “Oasis” configuration out of the box): see American Airlines (unofficial) fleet site 738 Classic (link) and 738 Enhanced link listings. Old versions are 16 / 144, new “Oasis” are 16 / 156.
This retrofit is occurring fairly rapidly, and there are 304 738s. Rather than tediously updating a list here, look at the AA fleet site pages linked to above. The fleet site is updating their information in a timely manner.
This retrofit is occurring fairly rapidly, and there are 304 738s. Rather than tediously updating a list here, look at the AA fleet site pages linked to above. The fleet site is updating their information in a timely manner.
Unrefitted Boeing 738 to 7M8 or densified Oasis 738 aircraft Swap - Seat loss, etc.
Oct 16, 2018, 11:52 am
#16
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Another good reason to check in before arrival at the airport. If there is an a/c change you might catch it in time to avoid being seated in 32B. I doubt there's much other strategy. AA generally doesn't switch the type of equipment and its fairly rare and unannounced. Over the past few months I've had a LUS 319 switched to a LAA 321 and 738. I've noticed in hubs that if a flight is oversold AA will often upgauge the equipment rather than ask for/force bumps. The two flights if had been on a 319 would have needed required bumps.
Over time, this issue will just get worse until we are left with no legacy narrowbodies and they’re all “More Sardines Throughout Coach” under Awaysis. Flying this airline in coach domestically or equivalent in the 2020s will be painful. “Main Cabin” will become “Pain Cabin”.
The fleet with Awaysis in the 2020s:
A321 (LAA, LUS, neo) - 299 (20 A321T)
B737 (738, 7M8) - 404
A319 (will they?) - 133
Oct 16, 2018, 12:17 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Posts: 700
Yes, it IMO this is different, because it’s just a switch from a legacy 738 to an Awaysis 738, legacy 738 to a MAX (on longer routes in particular, this saves significant fuel), or in the near future legacy (non-T) 32B or A321 to an Awaysified version. I’m not sure Dispatch would take these issues into consideration unless they decided to put a 172 seat 738 on a route scheduled for a 160 seater for reasons of oversales.
Over time, this issue will just get worse until we are left with no legacy narrowbodies and they’re all “More Sardines Throughout Coach” under Awaysis. Flying this airline in coach domestically or equivalent in the 2020s will be painful. “Main Cabin” will become “Pain Cabin”.
The fleet with Awaysis in the 2020s:
A321 (LAA, LUS, neo) - 299 (20 A321T)
B737 (738, 7M8) - 404
A319 (will they?) - 133
Over time, this issue will just get worse until we are left with no legacy narrowbodies and they’re all “More Sardines Throughout Coach” under Awaysis. Flying this airline in coach domestically or equivalent in the 2020s will be painful. “Main Cabin” will become “Pain Cabin”.
The fleet with Awaysis in the 2020s:
A321 (LAA, LUS, neo) - 299 (20 A321T)
B737 (738, 7M8) - 404
A319 (will they?) - 133
Oct 16, 2018, 12:27 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2015
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In the interim, if swapped to a 737 LEAST 8, or a reconfigured bird, does the ticketing condition "CHANGE OF EQUIPMENT NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THE PASSENGER" cover cancelling and refunding the ticket? I seem to recall when the 777-200 had a Pacific and Atlantic configuration, that swap wouldn't have been enough, but if a 77L was swapped in for a 77W, that would be enough to cry foul.
Oct 16, 2018, 12:29 pm
#19
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The only good thing is it seems as though the International ULCC isn't doing so well. Wow just pulled out of three cities after lots of fanfare. Maybe a 28-29 inch seat for 8 hours plus might not be so salable albeit it never ceases to amaze me what people (particularly Americans) will put themselves through to save a few bucks. As long as people will continue to buy a 28 inch seat in mass that's the direction airlines will go in. Sadly for business travelers that don't fly enough to always upgrade or travelers like me that are willing to pay more (and consequently travel less) its not a pleasant situation. Maybe the goal is to make Y so miserable people with more disposable income will shell out $$ for F. Kind of like why people won't take the city bus to work and instead drive their own car.
Oct 16, 2018, 1:25 pm
#20
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Though I’m sure “Awaysis plus” weighs in the minds of WN management. After all, six more seats - can one fit 12? - and 29” pitch means $$$.
Gary Weissel, managing director of Tronos Aviation Consulting Inc., estimated that American could generate about $400,000 a year for each seat it adds to a plane, based on average fares and typical aircraft usage
Oct 16, 2018, 1:32 pm
#21
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Well, the original proposal was 29” pitch. Some say the heaviest pushback was from cabin crew - after all, AA needs four FAs (FARs require 1:50) whether the aircraft seats 150, 160 or 172. More work for the same number if cabin crew.
Though I’m sure “Awaysis plus” weighs in the minds of WN management. After all, six more seats - can one fit 12? - and 29” pitch means $$$.
Though I’m sure “Awaysis plus” weighs in the minds of WN management. After all, six more seats - can one fit 12? - and 29” pitch means $$$.
Oct 16, 2018, 2:12 pm
#22
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I wonder how this decreasing pitch impacts customer decisions on Eagle flights vs. mainline on routes where there is overlap (e.g. ORD-STL)? I might choose an Envoy E-175 over a Max-8 on a route that has both offerings.
Oct 16, 2018, 5:02 pm
#23
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Yeah as far as I know (probably because of union contracts with the pilots) no RJ's will be getting densified, so it's coming to the point now where Flying on a CRJ-900 or E175 will become a much better flight than flying on an A321 or 738.
Oct 16, 2018, 5:14 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CUR
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For many of us, flying on an E175 is already much better than any mainline plane.
Oct 16, 2018, 5:16 pm
#25
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The problem with switching to Envoy, etc,. is the operational crapshow one gets. July 2018 data from the DOT's September Air Travel Consumer Report:
- twice the rate of cancellations as the industry average
- twice the rate of baggage complaints as the industry average
- 40% higher rate of IDB than the industry average (and 14x that of Delta Connection)
It's not just RJ versus mainline. AA's RJ ops are verifiably, statistically bad.
- twice the rate of cancellations as the industry average
- twice the rate of baggage complaints as the industry average
- 40% higher rate of IDB than the industry average (and 14x that of Delta Connection)
It's not just RJ versus mainline. AA's RJ ops are verifiably, statistically bad.
Oct 16, 2018, 9:07 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2009
Location: DFW
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Enjoy....just went through this but in FC.
one must be militant about checking seat assignments now.
another #goingforgreat experience 🙄
one must be militant about checking seat assignments now.
another #goingforgreat experience 🙄
It may be obvious but I can't think of examples right this moment.
Oct 16, 2018, 9:40 pm
#27
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Even if the F Cabin is the same, seats can be lost in the shuffle. Not to mention the legacy 738 F seats are numbered 3-6, whereas on the MAX and 738 MSTC it’s 1-4. AA just doesn’t handle this kind of stuff competently.
Oct 17, 2018, 7:51 am
#29
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I think I’ve been oasisified but can’t tell. Just boarded 890 to OAK. The plane is a 320 with zero power, new super thin seats and no IFE.
Wait! Think I found the outlet. No sorry, just an empty void in the seat.
Bravo Parker!
Wait! Think I found the outlet. No sorry, just an empty void in the seat.
Bravo Parker!
Last edited by enviroian; Oct 17, 2018 at 7:59 am
Oct 17, 2018, 8:42 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 163
Same happens on eagle when they swap cr900 to cr700, one numbers consecutive, one skips from 3 to 8, MCE being 8,9,10 on one, 4, 5, 6 on the other. Burned more than once on this, and have no idea how they manage to screw this up, there are 3 MCE rows in each plane, move folks in the 3 rows in one to the same three rows in the other. But no, picking row 9, you keep row 9, and at check-in, 4-6 are already full, how'd that happen. I might be off a row number or two, but you get the idea.